Round or sharp tip?

[Hydrona]

Hello folks,

I thought about ordering some new wooden tops on Amazon.
But there are two different types of tip. Round ball like tip and sharp tip. Same manufacturer.
Which are better for tricks? Is there a difference in performance?
Have to admit, those with round tips look good. Seems like they can catch the cord better (the Grove is wider ).
I've added the link. Hope you folks can help me out.

https://www.amazon.nl/GERILEO-Partij-Klassieke-Houten-Tollen/dp/B083SHVZFD
https://www.amazon.nl/GERILEO-Partij-Klassieke-Houten-metalen/dp/B0848P75LN

Thanks in advantage!

[ta0]

I think you are right, the ball tip looks a little better.

They look identical to the baldufas made by Can Cels, so I'm guessing Gerileo just resells them.

The video "tutorial" on Amazon with the white-dog-head guy showing the killer throw and tip up throw is funny.

https://www.amazon.nl/vdp/13d0f500063b4 ... bddc033c9a

[Hydrona]

Thank you for the information Ta0
I looked it up. Yes indeed, they're the same.
Round tip it is!
Going to buy them today. You can't go wrong with that price I think .

[ortwin]

Funny! I bought 12 of those for 20 euros very recently! I even brought 2 of them here to Italy. Trying to get my wife to battle with me. Actually I saw the same top in a toy store here in Levico Terme selling for 2,80 euro!.
They are really good enough for the price. Some tricks are possible:
Boomerang
Sky rocket
Hacky top
Trapeze
It can do a wire walker


But it does not work for me for MGR and such. It does not like to stay on the string for that kind of trick.


I had planned to post a photo and a video with those tops over the next few days. Now I have even more reasons to do it.


Edit: I got the colorful ones with the round tip.
When I get home I need to order some with the sharp tip as well so I can compare them.

[ortwin]

And here is the promised video:


https://youtu.be/MoeYJNJQiwU


My wife threw the red top, I threw the blue top.
The rounded tip helps a lot I think in letting them get upright.

[Hydrona]

@ortwin, great that you got the same! And doing tricks with them.That surely means they are at least decent spin tops.
Great video! Your wife can throw a top for sure! And aim for the disc! It takes me some more tries to get it on video.
Those rounded tips, I've never seen them before. There's something about the round shaped tips , that I love.
I still asked here, what the best choice was, before I bought them, but I was going to purchase them anyway .


Still waiting for my package. It's on its way to me, the sender says. Can't wait to test them out!

[Hydrona]

My tops have arrived!

On the package it says Can Cels. So Ta0 was right on it! .
Just tested them. They are really nice! Only the cord it comes with was not suitable for the top.
But I've got plenty of macrame cord I use for my other tops. It works great!

[Jeremy McCreary]

The rounded tip helps a lot I think in letting them get upright.

Yes, and that gives a battle top some staying power against blows from other tops. Rounded tips also promote travel, and that's key to exciting battles.

In making my own LEGO battle tops, tip radius of curvature turned out to be a very important parameter. Ditto for CM height.

[Hydrona]

Just came from outside.
I love the round tips! They spin so great! I did a Boomerang and a short-lived wirewalker with these (need to practice on that).
I'm very happy with these cute spin tops!
I've coated 2 of them with clear varnish to protect them from water, rain and sunlight. They are unfinished wood after all. A little bit of love for my new treasures.
I thought about not paint them, as the wood is beautiful!
I've stored the other 2 tops in my room.

[ta0]

It's great that you are all enjoying those traditional baldufas.
Congratulations Ortwin on your wife learning how to throw a peg top: I'm impressed!

A blunt tip is needed for the top to stand up, but the "pointy" tip of the Can Cels tops is not really sharp and it works as a blunt tip:

[ortwin]

...
In making my own LEGO battle tops, tip radius of curvature turned out to be a very important parameter. Ditto for CM height.

In a battle of two tops, I think it makes things also more interesting if the tops turn in different directions. They should run more often into each other that way. Me throwing left handed and my wife with the right hand should work fine in that respect. What do you experts think? I have like no experience with top battles.

[ta0]

In a battle of two tops, I think it makes things also more interesting if the tops turn in different directions. They should run more often into each other that way. Me throwing left handed and my wife with the right hand should work fine in that respect. What do you experts think? I have like no experience with top battles.

If the tops spin in opposite directions they also precess in opposite directions and are more likely to collide if doing big circles. On the other hand, the collisions should be tamer as at the contact the surfaces are moving tangentially in the same direction: there could even be a transfer of spin from the faster spinner to the lower spinner. I would guess tops spinning in the same direction have more violent battles while tops spinning in the opposite directions would have longer battles. But my experience battling is limited. Beyblade players should be able to answer this.

[Jeremy McCreary]

If the tops spin in opposite directions they also precess in opposite directions and are more likely to collide if doing big circles. On the other hand, the collisions should be tamer as at the contact the surfaces are moving tangentially in the same direction: there could even be a transfer of spin from the faster spinner to the lower spinner. I would guess tops spinning in the same direction have more violent battles while tops spinning in the opposite directions would have longer battles.

Agree with every word.

Put a lot of time and testing into the LEGO battle top design below. Much of what I observed probably applies to any top meant to battle with identical tops at low closing speeds. (This includes beigoma but excludes battles involving violent throws.)

https://youtu.be/X82rzFteZdk

Overall action seems to benefit from these parameter trends -- at least to a point:

1. Larger AMI per unit mass
2. Smaller mass (easier to eject)
3. Larger initial charge of angular momentum
4. Higher-relief "tread" (the part of the top's surface the other top can touch in normal play) -- like the lugs on the sides of the tops in the video
5. Higher CM (to promote self-righting)
6. Higher tread
7. Larger tip radius of curvature (to promote travel and self-righting)

No particular order, but item 4 is key for ejections (think beigoma). Had some experimental control over all of these parameters but was unable to experiment properly with tread radius.

[ortwin]

The baldufas with the sharp tip arrived, now I have both types and can compare them.







My first impressions are: the sharp tip does not have any advantage over the round tip in anything I have tested so far.
round goes upright faster
round spins for a longer time
round wins most fights against sharp
both do not like to stay on the string for tricks like "merry go round"
for both wire walker tricks are possible in principle, "short circuit" and the wirewalker from one hand to the other seem to be within reach

[ta0]

That arrow tip reminds me the spikes used to decorate punk gear. Actually, the round tip could also be a repurposed stud.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1020595941 ... spikespunk

Richy Nye used them for his killer battle tops:



Yes, that's blood on my finger . . .