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Author Topic: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?  (Read 9382 times)

johnm

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does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« on: July 27, 2011, 02:21:10 PM »

Since Mike Hout has called us out

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I saw this fantastic sight recently in Cincinnati and regeneration was involved.  I was hoping some others would step forward with more information!

here is a semi-spontaneous video (captured on a phone) of a 15 wrap corkscrew performed with a fixed tip top.  Notice at the end of the wrapping segment that the top is wobbling significantly due to lack of spin.  Because the top was basically at the tipping/dropping point, I didn't have time to warn the camera man to track up with my arm to the start of the corkscrew, so sorry about that missed part of the trick.  Also notice that after returning to hand, the top is very stable with spin to spare.  Thus the corkscrew IS a regeneration trick motion if the arm pumping action required for the bearing version is used with a fixed tip.  Hemingsoft and Physboy have done 9 and more wrap staircase to heaven successfully by arm pumping with speed added as well. 

Perhaps someone with a one-way bearing top could record the trick with good sound to identify the regen time.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 10:01:40 PM by johnm »
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 02:35:22 PM »

I personally saw a 14 wrap fixed tip corkscrew and that baby was humming nicely at the end.  It all kind of caught me off guard.  I wish I was watching closer or could see it all again.  What I saw seemed pretty historic.  Great work, johnm!
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Spinningray

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 03:15:05 PM »

Great going John! It definitely is regenerating spin. Not sure anyone could beat you at the corkscrew challenge. Especially a fixed tip challenge.

I was thinking today about corkscrews. It should be possible to do the corkscrew again after you return to your hand. Your arm is already wrapped up and ready to go.
Maybe catch it on the string instead of your hand for continuous corkscrews.

Has anyone ever done two handed corkscrews?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 08:16:44 PM by Spinningray »
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ta0

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 07:08:11 PM »

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

WOW!!!!!

I propose we skip the Corkscrew Challenge this year and Neff sends the trophy directly to John to keep for the next year!!!!
You deserve it!!!

We can replace the challenge this year with something else, like high trapeze. Or still do the challenge but not for the trophy. Was Physboy planning to come to worlds and beat us at the challenge using a fixed tip? That would have been shocking!


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Hemingsoft and Physboy have done 9 and more wrap staircase to heaven successfully by arm pumping with speed added as well. 

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

I AM shocked! If a regenerating corkscrew is amazing, a regenerating staircase to heaven is unbelievable.  I need to think about this . . .

Can you tell us the story behind the discovery that a corkscrew can regenerate?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 07:13:56 PM by ta0 »
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johnm

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 09:59:57 PM »

I was thinking today about corkscrews. It should be possible to do the corkscrew again after you return to your hand. Your arm is already wrapped up and ready to go.
Maybe catch it on the string instead of your hand for continuous corkscrews.

That would be great.  Right now for me it is rather a dead end trick with the string consumed on my arm.  I have had enough spin a few times to just barely unwrap all the string and start RCS but the extra string is really too clumsy for me.  I think I'll leave the continuous corkscrews to players like Salvador who can figure out how to re-wrap the tip.

Can you tell us the story behind the discovery that a corkscrew can regenerate?

I'm not proud to say the path to regeneration recognition was basically coincidence fueled by jealousy and friendly competition.  I suppose it goes back the Miamisburg Whirled Festival of Tops (blatant plug for Mike's event in August ;D) when Apex made some custom extra long lefty string for Hemingsoft, and some slightly less long custom string for Physboy and me (mine was the shortest :P).  When you have longer string wrapped on the top, the boomerang provides a faster initial spin so you have more time to position the string which naturally leads to more wraps of the corkscrew. Also rather natural was the tendency to pump ones arm to force the top around.  Thus a local informal competition was underway.  Of course as our skills improved, the string length was the limiting factor.  Because they have really strong boomerangs and with the added long string speed, the top's speed was always high, so we never thought about how much final speed there was when back in the hand.  Since I was behind by 2-3 wraps, I finally made a 13 foot string a few week ago.   Increasing the number of wraps one at a time I was surprised to notice that the extra wraps at the end were not really harder to clear if the wraps were clean but I didn't really make the connection then, instead just preferring to believe I had some skills ::).  Since I have what I'll refer to as a ‘wimpy’ boomerang, by the time I placed 12 or so wraps around my arm the top was pretty slow but fast enough to launch into the corkscrew and at the end, balancing after the catch was easy.  That easy balancing was the clue to realizing that the pumping action was driving the top and adding spin.

 
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I propose we skip the Corkscrew Challenge this year and Neff sends the trophy directly to John to keep for the next year!!!!
You deserve it!!!

Wow a temping offer, but I'd prefer the contest to continue as scheduled with the traveling prize for the competition winner.  I respect the established tradition and the intention of gathering the players together under which the trophy was donated--thanks Jim!  The spirit of that competition and the camaraderie displayed among the players should be promoted and not interrupted.

I sent an email to physboy to prompt him to check the board, but I fear that real life is interferring with his top spinning. :(
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ta0

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 10:42:38 PM »

I still think I am dreaming and I will wake up any moment . . .  Once upon a time, regenerating the spin of a top seemed almost impossible to me. Nowadays, it almost seems that tops can catch a spirit and spin by themselves (as a Malaysian legend tells . . .)

In theory, if you wrap a top for a wire walker but force it to go faster than it would walk, you regenerate the spin.  In fact, the corkscrew and the staircase to heaven are bound like a wire walker. But on the corkscrew the string after going over itself around the tip, goes down towards the arm, basically assuring a lot of string-to-string friction. I am really surprised that it does not kill the trick by slowing the top.  I guess having the arm wraps bunched together helps in this regard by keeping the string almost in one plane. 

You really swing that top hard: it looks pretty scary!!!

I still think you should get that trophy. Maybe even in perpetuity!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 10:45:30 PM by ta0 »
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Neff

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 10:48:01 PM »

This is absolutely amazing.  Epic.  I second ta0's motion:

I propose we skip the Corkscrew Challenge this year and Neff sends the trophy directly to John to keep for the next year!!!!
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John Buechele

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 11:33:09 PM »

This is incredible. Way to go johnm. I really need to head down to cincinnati sometime soon.
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poptop

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2011, 02:15:23 PM »

Unbelievable!
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ta0

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2011, 11:30:48 PM »

I just did 11 wraps with a hollow point! That ties my record in competition with a bearing top!  Unreal!!! The greatest difficulty was placing all those wraps before the top lost too much speed (and you say John that your throw is wimpy??)

Does this mean that the corkscrew challenge is over? Well, no. With the current rules a fixed tip contestant is limited by the spin of the boomerang and the time it takes to wrap the string around the arm.  It seems that both a bearing and a fixed tip would have trouble going in the high teens and I am not sure which one would ultimately be better. It would be interesting to have a competition with players using both.  But what about one-way bearing? Wouldn't that one leave the other ones in the dust but giving a "bearing-type" time for setup plus the no limit regeneration once the corkscrew is started?  I only tried a few times, but the one-way bearing didn't work for me.  Perhaps I just didn't do it right or perhaps there is something more fundamental . . .

I propose we still have the corkscrew challenge but the Jim Boehm trophy goes to John M. this year. We can have other prizes, even the wine bottle . . .
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Pulpowsky

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2011, 02:14:03 AM »

I dont believe it. As Salvador Martinez says, you must make 20 reps to declare the trick as "regen trick".  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

In few days new Salvador video with 100 reps or more...  ;D ;D ;D

Superb!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 08:46:46 AM by ta0 »
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ta0

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 10:53:36 PM »

I wrote to Lao Alovus, the "father" of the corkscrew in the US and pointed him to this post. His answer: "WOW!  Amazing." He wants to be notified when somebody does the "infinite corkscrew." 

He asked me if the Corkscrew Challenge takes place at Worlds in Orlando. What a timely question!  ;) Of course, I strongly suggested he should stop by  . . . (he is in Tallahassee).
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trompillo

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2011, 03:45:03 PM »

 :o :o Simply amazing¡¡
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Watts' Tops

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2011, 05:18:56 PM »

I am totally impressed :-* :-*
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Ketzaltlipoka

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Re: does fixed tip top corkscrew regenerate?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2011, 10:05:46 PM »

I wiil talk after about this topic, and I will give my opinion.
Right now, I must leave.
meanwhile, is a very good action...11 spins...very goog, John!
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