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[Lourens]

Hello Jim,
I think we have a lot of similar interests! Too much to talk about on a forum! Maybe we can meet each other in future and share some thoughts and the people we have met in the past. The book sells very well and I am very proud that well known museums like the V and A in England and the Toy Museum in Catalunya bought it also! So, maybe indeed a redun in the future??
Lourens.

[ta0]

I advanced a few more pages (I guess I am a slow reader  )

I didn't know a top had been found on Tutankhamen's grave! A very nice whip top indeed, made of wood with an inlaid of ivory, ebony and faience. The top is 4.5 cm tall and I would guess the most valuable top in the world. I bet nobody has whipped it in 3,300+ years! I bet they wouldn't let me do it 



I did a search on Google. From the Global Egyptian Museum that has the same picture: "The spinning top was one of the most beloved toys of Egyptian children in ancient and even modern times."


Here , under Ancient Egyptian Games, it says: "Toys were almost always made of wood and/or clay. Tops, though, were made of powdered quartz that was shaped in a mold . . . and then glazed. These were inexpensive and therefore could be found in most poor homes. They spun by pulling a string or twisting fingers. " The last statement may be somewhat incorrect as Lourens states they were all whip tops and has pictures of several.

[the Earl of Whirl]

That is information that everyone can relate to.  I bet I will always get people's attention when I say "There was even a top found in King Tut's grave!"

[Lourens]

Dear Ta0 and Mike,
In addition to your  remarks about the top from Tut: as you can see on page 16 of my book also wooden tops were made for the children in the villages like Kahun in that time. Of this kind of tops more were found in one place. The search will go one.

The next few days I am not able to keep an eye on this forum because I have some books to sell on a show! Lourens

[jim in paris]

ok lourens !
you're right !
this discussinon  should take place in a café
where we could talk and let the good times roll

plus
not many people here on the forum have got the book yet
so we'll come back to this topic later

best of lucks for the promotion

jim

[ta0]

I am about to start the section of scientific tops.

Of the previous pages I cannot help to comment about the description of Dutch author Theo Thijssen of the game of "water welling" of his youth, late 1800's. The boys challenged each other to throw a top to the surface of a canal, like trying to spin it on the water, and to pull back the top at the last instant (a la boomerang) with the tip wet. You can imagine that tops were often lost forever. Still, they preferred that fate than to have the top split in two by another top!

On page 44, the elegant early 19th century English tops 7 (whip) and 8 (peg) are adorned with ebony and mother pearl discs on the crown. I have a couple of peg tops I bought together that have what appears to be a similar decoration. I assumed they were 20th century tops, but now I wonder.

That is a beautiful (and large) collection of European humming tops you have! But none is similar to the central drawing on the 1869 poster on page 53. Do you have such a top with many holes at different heights? I wonder if the different holes perhaps open to different chambers and sound different tones? By the way, have you found one that makes a particularly beautiful or striking sound?

I imagine that the clown finger top on page 61 has two sections that spin separately so the tongue can point to different numbers. What materials is it made of?

On the description of the Kelantan gasing tops on page 68, you say the border is made out of lead. Although it does look as lead, I believe it is tin, or an alloy mostly of tin.  I have seen them described as such and Malaysia is a big exporter of tin. I tried to check this on a 20th century gasing and the weight was consistent with tin (but I cannot be sure as I weighed the top intact).

This book is a treat to look at and also to read. Thanks!!!

[the Earl of Whirl]

I cannot sleep.  The pole vaulters I coach had a great meet tonight.  I'm still too excited and cranked to rest.  So I got on the good old itopspin.com site and started laughing when I read about "water welling".  Trying to spin the top so it barely hits the water before pulling it back made me chuckle out loud.  Sounds like a fun activity to do at pool side in Orlando at Worlds!!! 

[Lourens]

Dear Ta0,
Thank you for appreciating of the book and the story of Theo Thijssen!

Concerning your remark about the tops on page 44 related to your owm collection: take a look at page 141 (A boys present). You see the same tops but the advertisement shows they were part of a set. Sold in 3 qualities. In the same time you also could buy them in a larger quantity like 5 or 6 and for sure they are dated between 1840-1890.

Concerning page 53:No, I do not have this top with the many holes and I have never seen it either!  On page 149 you see a tin version with the same possibilities. This tops plays multiple octaves and 'God save the King'. At this top the different holes and chambers open and close, this varies with the speed of the top. Touching it with the hand carefully, during spinning, makes this happen. I have spinning tops like this but not this special one with so many possibilities!

Concerning page 61: the top is made of wood and you are right about the movement. It is made in Germany, by C. Hacker in the early 1900s.

Concerning page 68: you are right about the alloy. The oldest one I have, has totally been made of wood, from the 19th century, diameter is 12,5 inches. See page 65.

I am looking forward to discuss more in future! Lourens.

[ta0]

Thank you Lourens for taking the time to answer all my questions.

A 12.5 diameter gasing is huge!

Tonight I'll start the scientific tops section which I predict will be one of my favorites as my collection started with modern "science toy tops" (Levitron, Top Secret and the Hart's motorized top).

Mike: that would be fun, but we should add the rule that you have to bee fully dressed when playing so retrieving the top will have its "penalty" 

[poptop]

Thanks for the terrific book Lourens!

I discovered it had arrived when I got home late last night.  I should have gone to bed, but I could not put it down!

The photos are beautiful.

[Lourens]

Dear Eratic Wobbler,

I hope the book did not cause any nightmares but gave you sweet dreams after all!

Lourens.

[ta0]

Ok, I got to the start of the Japanese section. So I have these remarks and questions about the scientific toys section.

You mention both James Clerk Maxwell and Crabtree's book. On pages 8 and 51 of Crabtree there are drawings of the remarkable "Gyroscopic Top". I read this was invented by "a professor Maxwell" but it did not specifically say it was THAT Maxwell. Do you know if that was the case?

At the time John Gorham invented the Kaleidoscopic Colour top in England, another J. Gorham on the other side of the Atlantic was starting Gorham Silver manufacturing that would much later make the poker top of sterling silver on page 62 (without caption.)  I have the version with the "decision maker" design instead.

In the Blondin top, page 80, the lower top is just a pedestal, it does not spin, is that correct?

Did you ever try the Phonograph Top? Did it play a tune? (I asked the same question to Cyril M. but I believe he answered that he did not dare to test it).

Can you explain the Fireworks top? Do you spin it in the dark and shine a light on those strange attachments to the stem?

Yes, the picture of the collection of tops from the 1896 issue of La Nature is amazing and I am not surprised you write that you "felt struck by lightning" the first time you saw it.  That article is available on the internet, in particular the drawing is  here. The following year Scientific American published the same article in English, which I have.  I plan to scan it an posted on the website one day. I imagine collecting all those tops must have been a great incentive. I have many questions about the tops in the Nature poster, but you say they will be discussed individually later.

Tops made out of glass are unusual for obvious reasons. I wonder how many of the "ink well" tops (pages 89-90) survived all the tricks described in the brochure! Do you dare test it?

You describe the "American Football" top, page 91, as American from 1945-1955. It always looked older to me, like taken out of the pages of Perry's book that you mention on the same page.

[Lourens]

Hello Ta0,
Considering Maxwell: I do not think that it was the same person because I know of some letters from Maxwell to an other scientist in which he referred to the Foucaults Gyroscope.

Considering the Gorham silver top: various versions are known. I think that Gorham, the scientist, is not related to the silver-maker. But both are worth collecting!

Considering the Blondin-top: see the description on the box! It calls 'the top on the top of the top'. A long time ago, after purchasing this wonderful top and the hand painted box, my wife and I spent a whole evening but after all, both tops were spinning! A wonderful item!!

The Phonograph Top: yes I did try it but because I only have 1 original cone I made a copy of a cone with a very hard paper point. But I am not the best musician of the world and the music I made was not worthwile an audience!

The fireworks Top: You can play with it in daylight. On top are metallic like wires ( in various directions and heights) and a piece of black paper as a background and a piece of red, very shining (like metallic / milk cups) paper. If you turn the top and look at it  from above it looks like sparkling. As much fireworks as you can expect for the original English price of 1 shilling!

The reason why I was 'in a shock' of the La Nature picture (1896) was that in a serious scientific magazine like La Nature toy-tops were described from the point of view of a scientific research. Most if the toy tops in this picture were made by English, German and French toy factories from the second half of the 1800's. Some of them you'll find in my book in the parts about this countries. Even Gould described in his book for example that he had never seen figure 48 (satelite top or proliferous top).

As I like to 'play' with every top I have (for joy and research) i have also tried the ink well top but very carefully on the ground and for that reason not very succesful! I have never seen a second blue one but did see a red version some time ago. The paper I have never seen again.

At first, I also thought that the American Football-top was older, maybe made in the 1920's - 1930's but that was before I saw an advertisement in an American Toy catalogue from the period 1945 / 1950. The catalogue was not dated but the other toys in this catalogue are well known and dated. The colors of the top, depicted in my book are different from the one I saw in the catalogue so maybe it was made during a long time?

Enjoy your weekend! have fun Ta0, warm regards, Lourens.

[poptop]

As I like to 'play' with every top I have (for joy and research) i have also tried the ink well top

Lourens, you sir are in good company!