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Author Topic: introducing myself  (Read 11383 times)

ortwin

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2021, 04:32:55 PM »

How do you spin up your Amazon purchase?


Like this billetspin person in the video. YouTube · BilletSPIN
1:09
Stemless Top spinning tips!
02.02.2017


For the 1100 RPM I need to use the two hands method.  That is the thumb of my left hand a d the middle finger of my right hand.
Do you know  better ways?
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In the broader world of tops, nothing's everything!  —  Jeremy McCreary

Jeremy McCreary

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2021, 07:32:10 PM »

Not sure that was the video link you intended. You mean like this, with the symmetry axis more or less vertical?



If so, what was your question again?
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Art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time ... and with spinning tops, we decorate both.
—after Jean-Michel Basquiat, 1960-1988

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ortwin

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2021, 02:58:27 AM »

Not sure that was the video link you intended. You mean like this, with the symmetry axis more or less vertical?


If so, what was your question again?


Sorry for supplying the link to the video in such a crappy way. But yes that is the one that shows the methods I use to spin up my "Amazon purchase".
Since you asked how I do it, I thought you might want to suggest a good  method for stemless tops.
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Jeremy McCreary

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2021, 10:55:04 AM »

Sorry, needed to see exactly what kind of stemless top you were talking about.

Unfortunately, no experience with this type, so no specific suggestions for spin-up. In this case, the two-handed method in the video yields a higher release speed without scraping, and that makes sense to me.

You could also devise a starter to go beyond the release speeds attainable by hand.



« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 12:19:41 PM by Jeremy McCreary »
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Jeremy McCreary

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2021, 01:05:12 PM »

Speaking of BILLETSPIN stemless tops, glad to see them experimenting with coax tops (my term for tops with 2 or more coaxial rotors capable of independent rotation)...



Coax tops are one of my favorite genres. Love the complex gyroscopic effects and angular momentum transfers on display here. Would be even moe instructive to see them in person, without the video artifacts.

Some of the fun things you can do with coax tops...

 
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 12:20:01 PM by Jeremy McCreary »
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Jeremy McCreary

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2021, 12:30:05 PM »

This BILLETSPIN video talks about the tough trade-offs involved in choosing the right stem diameter for a given top...



When he says "weight" or "mass" in his explanations, he should generally be saying "axial moment of inertia" (AMI) instead, as tops with the same weight can have vastly different AMIs, and vice-versa. In the end, only the AMI counts in stem diameter considerations.

Thinking in terms of weight instead of AMI works reasonably well for the BILLETSPIN guy only because his tops have similar 'disk on a stick' geometries and therefore similar AMIs per unit mass.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 12:58:30 PM by Jeremy McCreary »
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Iacopo

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2021, 03:47:55 AM »

I am really surprised that I find none that offers balancing with setscrews or something.

Hi Ortwin, welcome to the Forum.

I like your levitating ball, and the way you start it.

The reason that I sometimes use the balancing screws in my tops is that there is some wear out in the tips, due to the weight of my tops, and when a tip is resharpened or replaced, the balance may be not so perfect as before, and the balance screws make easier to fine tune the balance accurately again.
I don't use them always anyway, because with the taper joint I use now the balance is usually already good after a tip substitution.
The precision tops on the market are generally littler and lighter than the mine, they often have negligible wear out in the tips, so they don't really need balancing screws nor replaceable tips. 
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 03:51:39 AM by Iacopo »
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ortwin

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2021, 08:42:54 AM »

My main (or should I say top) goal at the moment to get a finger top ( not with a recessed tip) spinning for a long time with a single twirl.Iacopo, Jeremy told me in this thread to ask you what your best time is you reached this way, that would be the best time anyone got in the world.So what is it, and do you know of other spinning tops that come close?

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Iacopo

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2021, 12:39:49 PM »

The longest spin at my knowledge with a single twirl and external tip is this one, (49 minutes), but other owners of the same top seem to have quite lower spin times...  In any case this is a good top for long spins.




This other one is a large top, (490 grams), which spun 48 minutes, (but it was started with a cord):

?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
karlkanofski Cranking out the serious spin times with the Big Pull Cord Brass 490 grams.


My best tops for longest spins with a single twirl and external tip are these two ones;
the first is the Nr. 29, with a brass flywheel, 119 grams, diameter 59 mm, my best spin with it is 29'38".
The second is the Nr. 30, tungsten flywheel, 119 grams like the first, diameter 57.5 mm, best spin 36'11".








« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 03:12:14 AM by Iacopo »
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Jeremy McCreary

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2021, 06:58:15 PM »

Ah, gorgeous Nr. 30 -- one of my very favorites!

From a spin-time perspective, this beauty does almost everything right:
1. Mass strongly concentrated far from the spin axis (large AMI per unit mass) and very low to the ground (small CM height).
2. Long, low-mass stem providing the fine tilt control needed to deliver high-speed launches on a table without scraping.
3. Very low air and tip resistances.
4. Perfect dynamic balance.

Magnifique!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 12:48:56 PM by Jeremy McCreary »
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Iacopo

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2021, 03:19:48 AM »

From a spin-time perspective, this beauty does almost everything right:

Thank you, Jeremy !  By "almost everything" you mean that there is something you think it could be made better... ?
New ideas are always welcome.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 08:16:22 AM by Iacopo »
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ortwin

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2021, 04:49:59 AM »

That is the information I was looking for Iacopo, thank you!
That helps me set my goals in this fields:
> 15 minutes with a self built top (probably stemless)            - short term goal      Edit: reached on the 3rd of April 2021 (recessed tip), reached 26th of April 2021 (external tip, concave base)
> 20 minutes with commercial top (maybe with optimization) - mid term goal
> 25 minutes (a top a friend with a lathe helps to build)          - long term goal      Edit: reached on 27th of June 2021
> 30 minutes (getting lucky)                                                - lifetime goal          Edit: reached on 26th of August 2021
 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2021, 03:45:56 PM by ortwin »
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ta0

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2021, 10:22:49 AM »

The longest spin at my knowledge with a single twirl and external tip is this one, (49 minutes), but other owners of the same top seem to have quite lower spin times...  In any case this is a good top for long spins.

Of course, this does not count for a record. The "top" does not topple and spins down to zero. Therefore it's not working as a real top, at least not towards the end.
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Jeremy McCreary

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2021, 11:34:08 AM »

From a spin-time perspective, this beauty does almost everything right:

Thank you, Jeremy !  By "almost everything" you mean that there is something you think it could be made better... ?
New ideas are always welcome.

I said "almost" only because I'm still sorting out the relationship between spin time and absolute size -- say, as scaled by maximum radius R. It's possible that a copy of Nr. 30 with a smaller or larger R might stay up longer.

As you know, small decreases in critical speed can yield large gains in spin time. It's easy to show that for a symmetric top of uniform density, critical speed is proportional to 1 / sqrt(R) over a wide range of common top shapes. Beyond that, only the top's proportions count.

All other things being equal, that result favors tops of greater absolute size. Absolute mass, on the other hand, has no effect on critical speed.

But air resistance, another powerful limit on spin time, may well favor smaller tops. Many tops have disk-like rotors. Consider, then, the swirling air flow induced by a thin smooth spinning disk of radius R.

The resulting aerodynamic braking torque generated by the disk face grows with R4. Empirically, the braking torque from the disk's edge seems to be negligible up to thicknesses approaching R/10.

Where the sweet spot in R might be for a given top design is ultimately an empirical question. But my experience with tops of many shapes and sizes makes me think that a smaller copy of Nr. 30 might stay up longer.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 12:40:57 PM by Jeremy McCreary »
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Iacopo

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Re: introducing myself
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2021, 11:59:50 AM »

That is the information I was looking for Iacopo, thank you!That helps me set my goals in this fields:
> 15 minutes with a self built top (probably stemless)            - short term goal
> 20 minutes with commercial top (maybe with optimization) - mid term goal
> 25 minutes (a top a friend with a lathe helps to buid)          - long term goal
> 30 minutes (getting lucky)                                                - lifetime goal

Well, good luck, and have fun !
Have you considered to buy a lathe ?  When I bought the mine, I thought to be crazy, because it costed me about € 5000, and it was only for making spinning tops, nothing else.  But, in retrospect, I can say that this was one of the purchases that made me most happy.
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