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[andydecleyre]

Hello!
?
The first top I really appreciated was the "top-no-sis" / "LSX" -- meant to spin as long as someone properly tilts a surface underneath it. The older models had a more normal top shape, which I preferred, but the newer ones have a tulip-like shape. I can't find any photos of the original. In order to work like this, it's spun on (what at least appears to be) the handle (upside-down).

I was recently gifted an aluminum ForeverSpin top. I didn't think much at first, but then I found that spinning it upside down proved it capable of the same feat: tilt the surface, keep it spinning.

What other tops do or don't have this property? If anyone has another material ForeverSpin, can you test it? I'm especially curious about the the tungsten carbide one.

Thanks for any info!

P.S. I just found http://www.ta0.com/tricks/plate_regen.html -- So apparently this called "regeneration" or "plate regeneration" and can be done with a Spintastics Hollow Point. I'm still looking for more (especially pocket-sized)!

[the Earl of Whirl]

I appreciate your interest in this.  For a while, I really got into lug nut covers used for large trucks.  They are readily available and not very expensive.  I practiced for a while and then tried to go past the "record" set with top-no-sis.  Here is my post on the "thread about the longest spinning top".....

Thanks to a TV series called "How the States Got Their Shapes" I am not bored out of my mind.  I watched several segments of that show while spinning the metal lug nut cover in an IKEA bowl.  What a great show.  It seems that I learn a lot every time I watch it.  I finally let the spinner stop whirling after 3 hours 3 minutes and 53 seconds.  The seven hour attempt is still out there with that whip top but I think it would take quite a few more good shows on the TV for me to consider that.  Besides, I was really starting to get kind of dizzy the last hour.

Time for some lunch and a good walk to get my body back on track.

[ta0]

I came up with the name "plate" regenerations while filming a video about the Top-no-sis and I think it's very appropriate.
I suspect the mushroom shape of LSX was mostly about marketing. The top only needs to have a rounded tip that is relatively large with respect to the size of the top.

Are you sure there was a Top-no-sis with a different shape than the Mushroom?



I just tried it with a few finger tops that looked promising.
The champion by far was the Japanese Taorenado:



It's an excellent plate regeneration top.

I also tried the Janus: it works, at least right-side up. 

[ta0]

I was recently gifted an aluminum ForeverSpin top. I didn't think much at first, but then I found that spinning it upside down proved it capable of the same feat: tilt the surface, keep it spinning.

I tried with my gold-coated stainless steel Foreverspin (first generation) and I didn't find it easy to regen upide-down.

You can get the Taorenado from Spingear:
http://spingear.jp/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=2549
Although it regenerates very easily in the precession direction, not so in the opposite direction. The LSX is better in that regard.

[andydecleyre]

Thank you both!

Are you sure there was a Top-no-sis with a different shape than the Mushroom?

Yeah, the earlier models came to a nice point, so it could be spun "normally" as well.

The champion by far was the Japanese Taorenado

I just watched the video on that spingear product page for it and oh my goodness that looks too fun. I'm very tempted.

Although it regenerates very easily in the precession direction, not so in the opposite direction. The LSX is better in that regard.

Is it really possible for the LSX to regenerate in the "wrong" direction at all? I thought the best it (I) could do was withstand it for a while before going back with the spin.

I also tried the Janus: it works, at least right-side up. 

Cool! This is much more common than I thought. The brim is so low on the Janus I'd think it hard to tilt without toppling.

I tried with my gold-coated stainless steel Foreverspin (first generation) and I didn't find it easy to regen upide-down.

Do you think it was the weight (for its shape)? Friction? My aluminum one is pretty slippery on some surfaces.

[ta0]

Are you sure there was a Top-no-sis with a different shape than the Mushroom?

Yeah, the earlier models came to a nice point, so it could be spun "normally" as well.

I don't think it would work for a pointy top. But perhaps they were a little sharper than those of the tulip-shaped tops.

Although it regenerates very easily in the precession direction, not so in the opposite direction. The LSX is better in that regard.

Is it really possible for the LSX to regenerate in the "wrong" direction at all? I thought the best it (I) could do was withstand it for a while before going back with the spin.

Yes, even the instructions for the Top-no-sis say that.



For the normal direction (revolution and spin in the same direction), the top leans towards the center of the circle and the tip rubs the surface on the interior side.
For the opposite direction it needs to rub on the outside: you keep the top about vertical but incline the plate a lot.

I tried with my gold-coated stainless steel Foreverspin (first generation) and I didn't find it easy to regen upide-down.

Do you think it was the weight (for its shape)? Friction? My aluminum one is pretty slippery on some surfaces.

It might be lack of practice. I'll try again later.

You need to see this video that we have discussed before:



  

[andydecleyre]

I don't think it would work for a pointy top.

Well yeah, there was no regen ability with the pointy end.

Yes, even the instructions for the Top-no-sis say that.

Those directions do not explicitly make the claim that backwards revolutions can regen, but I'll take your word that it's possible, and give it a try. Thanks for the tips!

In my drooling over the Taorenado, I saw that video of the BilletSPIN Loki, which looks fantastic. But aside from being out of my price range for a top, it's not readily available.

[the Earl of Whirl]

This will regenerate in either direction......

https://www.4statetrucks.com/wheels/semi-truck-nut-covers_3521.asp

[Jeremy McCreary]

Welcome, Andy!

Anyone: How much do the maple and birch LSX tops weigh?

Reported densities for these woods vary quite a bit, but all are <75% the density of water.

Modeling the LSX to test a hunch about its absolute AMI, AMI per unit mass, and TMI/AMI ratio. Experiments with LEGO tops point to these as key parameters for efficient plate regen.

Here, AMI = axial moment of inertia (about spin axis) and TMI = transverse moment of inertia about tip contact.

[ta0]

Anyone: How much do the maple and birch LSX tops weigh?

I'm guessing the golden and brown LSX tops are of the same wood but just painted differently.
Anyway, I measured 13.5 g for the golden and a brown one and 15.3 g for another brown one.

Those directions do not explicitly make the claim that backwards revolutions can regen, but I'll take your word that it's possible, and give it a try. Thanks for the tips!

I'm still working on getting back the technique for backwards regens. I am regenerating some but not yet indefinitely.

[ta0]

You can get the Taorenado from Spingear:
http://spingear.jp/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=2549
Although it regenerates very easily in the precession direction, not so in the opposite direction. The LSX is better in that regard.

I need to correct myself. the Taorenado can regen well when revolving opposite to the spin: I can keep it going indefinitely in both directions.

[andydecleyre]

Thanks!

How much do the maple and birch LSX tops weigh?

I'm not sure which one I have now, but it's wooden (and tulip-shaped), and measuring around 15 grams on a kitchen scale.

This will regenerate in either direction.

Excellent! Thanks for the find, and the direct link (and bargain)! Any tips on the "reverse" regeneration technique?

the Taorenado can regen well when revolving opposite to the spin: I can keep it going indefinitely in both directions.

  I really want that. Thank you! You make it sound easy. I thought I was good with the LSX, but never even thought reverse regen was possible based on my attempts. Do you think there's any chance of the steel model becoming unavailable in a year?

I'll also note that when regenerating with the aluminum ForeverSpin (upside down) vs the LSX:

• I generally have to tilt more aggressively
• I think its lower friction can make it harder to achieve the regen-grip, so high friction surfaces help, and big ones to allow for some non-regen sliding along the way
• I often fail the initial landing
• I often fail trick landings
• Its brim (there's probably a proper term for the top's widest perimeter . . .) is much more likely to hit the surface and abruptly conclude the spin at extreme tilts

 .

[ta0]

Thank you! You make it sound easy. I thought I was good with the LSX, but never even thought reverse regen was possible based on my attempts.

My recollection is that I could regenerate backwards with the LSX but I'm having trouble right now and only can extend spins by about 50%. With the Taorenado I can keep going and going and going. So, it's actually hard to do with the LSX.

No luck regenerating (forwards) with the inverted steel Foreverspin, yet, but I haven't tried much. Mine is first generation and they made changes on the second gen, including the stem:

Do you think there's any chance of the steel model becoming unavailable in a year?

Foreverspin will continue in business for a while, I bet. So the steel version should be available in an year.

I will try with a different surface, as you suggest.

[andydecleyre]

Ah, I wouldn't be too surprised if the new-style longer stem and whatever they did to the spindle makes an important difference. Giving it the necessary tilt may just bring that brim right down to the surface.

As for the steel model, sorry, I actually meant the steel Taorenado. My wife has this wild idea that I don't "need" another top until my birthday.

[Jeremy McCreary]

My wife has this wild idea that I don't "need" another top until my birthday.

My wife has similar wild ideas about the "impractical" things I keep buying. I no longer bother with "But honey, what about all those shoes??", as her game is "the best defense is a good offense".

So I pretty much ignore the protests, and the house keeps filling up with tops, LEGO, and shoes. In the end, no one wins and everyone wins. Perfect!