Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[gunhawk7]

It's all a matter of demand.  If any company can sell a *lot* of tops, and tournaments draw a *lot* of players that demand better tops and are willing to pay for them, you will see greater variety and more experimentation in tops at *both* the pro and entry levels.  As i've said before, and I think that it's a no-brainer, tops need more exposure to the general public.  Advertising, touring demonstrators at large hobby franchise stores that will buy dozens of tops, mini tourneys on childrens shows, etc. are the way to get the word out.  A reasonably coordinated child can learn to spin a top in a few minutes with guidance.  If a kid buys an Imperial and has nobody to show him/her how to spin it, the kid'll toss it for something less fragile and challenging.  I haven't spun a top in decades, and if all that was available to me *now* was an Imperial I wouldn't have bothered going any further with the interest.  I think that we've lost almost an entire generation of people playing with tops as I have *never* seen *any* kid *seriously* playing with one since the 1950's.  You guys would have been amazed at the number of kids playing with them back then.  My block in New York City looked like one of Catherine's videos of her school kids.
Boys were playing with them *everywhere*.  In fact, on my block I never saw a kid with a YoYo.  Only tops.  New kids need to be enticed in some way.  Face-to-face is good, but I think that the answer lies in TV exposure and better available tops in Toys-R-Us.

Ed

[agentsac]

it certainly is frustrating sometimes that i have a hobby that can be so loved by a few people but so many more people have never seen or heard of some of the things a spintop can do. i know i was amazed the first time i saw someone do a trick with a spintop. yo-yos are something that were so popular not just in the 50s but even in the 90s that most people can identify with it. i think that is partly why yo-yos are still popular: because it is recognizable. even though most people have seen the same tricks over and over again they never get tired of seeing them (for instance, i can do some pretty cool tricks but most people ask to see "walk the dog". it never fails). as frustrating as it may be, i also enjoy the fact that the spintop community is small. although, i do think a little more exposure to the public wouldn't hurt either. the next time i do a yo-yo demo at my kid's school i'm definitely going to whip out a couple tops. in fact, weren't yo-yos called "return tops" back in the day?

the discussion here about demand is similar to the great yo-yo debate about popularity. some people would like to see the sport accepted and mass marketed like it was back in the day so they can enjoy the benefits (more selection and availability of products, bigger contests, etc.) but some people wouldn't like the masses to water down the creativity and individuality of the sport. both sides have valid points and honestly i'd be happy with somewhere in between.

[Watts' Tops]

A note on kids spinning on the streets.
  Last Jan. I was in Mexico at an outdoor market.  When I stepped around the corner of a building I found about 15 kids spinning tops.  First time I had seen that except when I get kids started.
I got my missionary son-in-law to intererate for me and asked the kids where the got their tops.  Over there---  I went over there and bought one, came back and began spinning it on string and hand etc.  They got all excited that it could be used other then on the cement.  We had a great time for about 1/2 hour and we had to leave.  I bought another bunch of tops before leaving.  They were really good ones.  Well ballanced.  But the kids began trying some of my stuff and asking how to do it.  It was great.

[gunhawk7]

the discussion here about demand is similar to the great yo-yo debate about popularity. some people would like to see the sport accepted and mass marketed like it was back in the day so they can enjoy the benefits (more selection and availability of products, bigger contests, etc.) but some people wouldn't like the masses to water down the creativity and individuality of the sport. both sides have valid points and honestly i'd be happy with somewhere in between.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I don't see how having spin tops become more widely accepted can possibly be a bad thing.  YoYos and Tops are solitary sports except in competiton or in Battle Tops, so how can the creativity and/or individuality of this interest be in any way watered down?  The spinner is going to do what he's going to do no matter what everyone else is doing.  More and better tops being more easily be obtained, access to people that can help with form and tricks, and social interaction with people with similar interests can only be a good thing.  Anyone that wants to play alone (shrug) can play alone.  Who's stopping them?  Seriously.

Ed

[agentsac]

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I don't see how having spin tops become more widely accepted can possibly be a bad thing.  YoYos and Tops are solitary sports except in competiton or in Battle Tops, so how can the creativity and/or individuality of this interest be in any way watered down?  The spinner is going to do what he's going to do no matter what everyone else is doing.  More and better tops being more easily be obtained, access to people that can help with form and tricks, and social interaction with people with similar interests can only be a good thing.  Anyone that wants to play alone (shrug) can play alone.  Who's stopping them?  Seriously.

Ed

dunno. you're preaching to the choir here. personally, i think some people are afraid that their identity will be stolen from them when all the "n00bs" come along and it becomes mainstream. some people just want it to be underground. they like small businesses that are close to the community and will cater to them and make products that they want because it keeps them in business, instead of a large corporation that makes cheap, mass-produced products that don't have the player in mind - just profit. they're afraid that once it becomes mainstream that the market will be flooded with shoddy products and put all the small guys out of business.

i'm not writing this stuff because that's what i think, i'm just repeating what i've heard. i feel where they are coming from, but i just don't let it bother me that much. i try and stay out of the drama but it's pretty rampant on some of the yo-yo boards. sorry, i'm not trying to spread it here. it's probably wrong of me to draw parallels between yo-yos and tops, anyway.

i just like playing with toys.


about those duncan tops...

[gunhawk7]

about those duncan tops...

Renee Newberry, the Consumer Rep at Duncan gave me the info that I started this thread with.  I dropped her another EMail asking her to explain the message.  No reply so far.

Ed

[the Earl of Whirl]

Several attempts have been made to make tops "mainstream" but so far everyone has lost money on them.  Don Olney can tell you some stories about his life making toys......and how peg tops were always a losing segment of the company.  I have heard the same story over and over
again from other companies.  I heard that story from the director of Nationals out in Chico and how hard they pushed for tops and the money they put into them.  About 8-10 years ago there was a big push from many different businesses with new tops and the push only lasted a short time because everyone was losing money.  I am very thankful for the companies that have tried to stay in it like Duncan and especially Spintastics.

[gunhawk7]

Mike

I guess tops are just disappearing from "kid culture".  As I've said before, there was no need to advertise in the 1950's as almost every boy had one and the interest was passed from generation to generation.  Since tops were used aggressively, as in "battle tops", in New York City, I wonder if "modernizing" with plastic tops and rounded points took away the interest in them.  I've looked at some of the post 1950's vintage tops on EBay and they look less like little kids toys than the weapon of choice for little tenement gunslingers.  Now, as an adult, i'm interested in the tricks that can be done with tops, but as a kid my top was a battle scarred tool of destruction made of wood with a sharp metal point.  There are many organized games of skill for kids to get involved with now, not to mention video games, so I guess that's why it's tough to get youngsters interested.

[Dick Stohr]

gunhawk

I think you may be generalizing too much.  Your experience was very different from mine in the same time frame.  I finished 8th grade in 1953 in Cincinnati OH.  We played yo-yos, marbles, and mumblypeg (throwing pocket knives).  Excluding pump tops, I did not know what a spin top was until 15 years ago when I had to learn to throw them for the Science of Spin program that I have been doing since 1996.  Not to take anything away from your memories but spin tops were not that big all across the country, just in some areas where the demonstrators taught enough for them to catch on.  So, get out and demonstrate and teach them to demonstrate and if we push on this rope long enough we may find the guy who has the starch concession and make some progress.   

[gunhawk7]

gunhawk

I think you may be generalizing too much.  Your experience was very different from mine in the same time frame.  I finished 8th grade in 1953 in Cincinnati OH.  We played yo-yos, marbles, and mumblypeg (throwing pocket knives).  Excluding pump tops, I did not know what a spin top was until 15 years ago when I had to learn to throw them for the Science of Spin program that I have been doing since 1996.  Not to take anything away from your memories but spin tops were not that big all across the country, just in some areas where the demonstrators taught enough for them to catch on.  So, get out and demonstrate and teach them to demonstrate and if we push on this rope long enough we may find the guy who has the starch concession and make some progress.   

You're not taking anything away from my memories.  We're just comparing experiences and discussing how tops can be better introduced to a new generation.

It's true that interests will vary from city to city and even neighborhood to neighborhood in the same city, but I never saw a top demonstrator in my life, nor did I ever see a top  advertised on TV.   I have no idea how widely tops were used in America, but they were obviously mass produced with the idea that someone was going to buy them even though they weren't widely advertised or demonstrated.  This leads me too believe that the interest was more cultural than randomly introduced and that only a *major* push will get them into the hands of kids again, and because of current trends even that will require a compelling reason for them to get interested.

BTW, I would have bet my Captain Midnight Ovaltine Shake Up Mug that *I* was the oldest guy posting here, but after doing the math I can see that it's not true, and that  makes me feel a lot less like the Lone Ranger. (-:

Thanks.

Ed

[Dick Stohr]

BTW, I would have bet my Captain Midnight Ovaltine Shake Up Mug that *I* was the oldest guy posting here, but after doing the math I can see that it's not true, and that  makes me feel a lot less like the Lone Ranger. (-:

 

Hey Jeffs, are we going to burst his bubble with your age?

[jeffs]

 

Hey Jeffs, are we going to burst his bubble with your age?

Last one to 80 is a rotten egg! Now if you'll excuse me...it's time for my nap.

[the Earl of Whirl]

Jeffs........Jorge and I always talk about how you are our hero!

[ta0]

Watching you do regenerations for the first time at 77 was a great inspiration and meant we could look forward to many years of progress in our top spinning abilities 

So, Jeff, what did you plan topwise for your big eight-0 ?

[jeffs]

Watching you do regenerations for the first time at 77 was a great inspiration and meant we could look forward to many years of progress in our top spinning abilities 

My advice would be to learn regeneration well before 77, and instead brighten your advanced years by taking up something easier, like Chinese or the violin.

To continue this thread hijack just a little more, let me say how very much the encouragement, instruction and friendship of this group has meant to me over the last several years. I truly appreciate all you've done for me as a learning septuagenarian, and be warned that I'll still be looking to you as I turn octo!