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[ta0]

It seems next year there will be a schism in the yo-yo community and this will affect tops.  Over the last 2 or 3 years, the Czech yo-yo association, backed by others, has been talking about organizing a world yo-yo contest Prague, building upon their success organizing an European contest.  But Greg Cohen, who has organized the current world contest in Orlando since the 2000 contest, has made it clear he will continue doing so.  Last year around the time of worlds, things got ugly when when both parties claimed to have been treated by contempt by the other.  The result is that next year there will be two alternative international/world contests, regrettably in the same dates if things don't change.  As by chance the Czechs also are into tops, there should be two international/world spintop contests.

I will do what I can to support both contests next year.  Greg's because of the continuity of a spintop contest that has been going on for a dozen years.  The Prague contest because a world contest has almost by definition to travel around the world.  Unfortunately, if they take place simultaneously, it is impossible to go to both (and even if they weren't, it would be difficult). Mark Hayward is already hired to be the MC for Orlando next year.  Because of their promotion seasons, the Cometa players (Gus!!) will likely also go to Orlando.  On the other hand, if I can I will go to Prague, probably as a judge/spectator, but perhaps to compete.

[czyoyo]

I will be at worlds Orlando!

We will be in the states at that time.

[Eli Hickerson]

WORLDS in orlando will not be the same if you are not there

[the Earl of Whirl]

"a world contest has almost by definition to travel around the world"

Hmmm?  Perhaps Mr. ta0 has never heard of the lumberjack world championships?

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I have also been reading about the world pipe band association contest with 30,000 people in the stands.

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Looks like the world championships of air guitar have always been in Oulu, Finland.

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Hmmm.....the ironman world championships look interesting!

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World championships of frog jumping are pretty exciting. 

I will have to bed now and continue my research later!

[ta0]

The Czechs and Europeans are not alone in this initiative, at least one faction of the Japanese and even many Americans (André Boulay is the point man but he has also tried to be a mediator) are behind the idea of having worlds going from county to country (or continent to continent).  Personally, I have always thought that should be the case, but I am saddened this will not be a smooth transition.  Last year I talked a lot with Greg trying to convince him that that was the way to go, to no avail.  In addition to the players, there are other interests involved.  For example, Yoyofactory has not sponsored the Orlando contest for two years in a row due to the 5A division controversy about the Duncan patent, and will support the Prague contest.

The idea they have is to form a World Yo-yo association that will certify the new contest.  I believe the plan is that in 2103 it will be in Europe,  2014 in Japan and in 2015 probably in the US. Of course, spintops do not need to follow yo-yos, and could go to Mexico instead of Japan, for example (although I would hope the Japanese koma players would get involved organizing a Japanese contest). On the other hand, the current worlds is organized privately by Infinite Illusions. Greg took the baton from Dale Oliver who started it around 1990 and bought his trademark of "World Yo-Yo Contest" for a symbolic $1.

WORLDS in orlando will not be the same if you are not there

Thanks for the thought, Eli. But in life nothing remains the same. Hopefully things will work out well for the sport.  Actually, one good thing already came out of this: never had all the scores been posted so fast on the worlds website (competition does that).  You can even pre-register for 2013 already!

[the Earl of Whirl]

It sounds like everything is already decided for top spinning next year.  Who made all the decisions?  I am at least glad we are now talking as if a contest in Orlando will be taking place.  For a while it sounded like top spinning would not be considered on stage next year at worlds.

And I do call the event worlds because the way everything was explained to me the "World Yo-Yo Contest" is more than a trademark.  It is a copyright.  And that $1 was more than symbolic, as lawyers explain it to me.

It was not mentioned that Greg Cohen has to work several years ahead.  He has the Rosen booked several years in advance in order to get that fine facility in that great location.  There is significant risk involved with hosting this event.

A few years ago I had someone from the Asian Festival try to take over our Whirled Top Festival in Miamisburg.  They told many people and organizers where we would be meeting (with their group) and when we would be meeting and how we would do the whole event.  It wasn't until months later that I was contacted to see what I thought about the whole thing.  It was a mess.  On top of that, the other group also wanted me and others to put money in our spinning event while they called the shots (and did not put in any money).  It turns out that they weren't even worried about the next year.  They just wanted control right then and didn't have any long range plans.

I feel for Greg because he has done more than just provide "continuity of a spintop contest that has been going on for a dozen years."  He was a significant part of us getting off the ground with a world championship.  He helped us get started and he made awards when there wasn't money and he helped keep us going through lean times.

As one who has had others attempt to "take over" a spinning event, I feel badly for Greg.  The Prague contest feels like a "take over" and putting their event at the same time and trying to cut into the World Yo-Yo Contest is divisive.

[ta0]

Well, I don't think everything is yet decided but I am trying to pass on what I know and my best guess of what is going to happen so everybody is aware of what is going on and we can have discussions such as this one.

Actually, nobody has told me that there will be a spintop international/world contest next year in the Czech Republic!  What I know is that things are going ahead for a yo-yo contest over there, supported by very important people in the yo-yo community (but by no means all).  I also know that the Czechs have included a spintop contest in the European tournament they have organized the last few years, and that they have very good spintop players, so I am assuming that there will also be a spintop contest. 

I am not an insider in the yo-yo community and I don't know everything that has been going on.  Obviously, the Japanese have been the backbone that has made the Orlando contest a true world title.  But after all these years it is understandable that they want to once have home advantage and not be the perennial visitors (from far, far away).  I believe the Japanese point man on this move is Hinori Mii (who I think has come to Orlando for the past 12 years).  I heard that inspired by the European contest he organized the best Japanese nationals to date and now feels he can organize an international contest. To a lesser extend, it is also understandable that the Europeans want a world contest in their continent, one to which they can take a train ride.  This year, probably because of the economy (but perhaps also because of the yo-yo politics), there were less than 10 European players in Orlando!

I am very grateful to Greg for having kept the spintop contest alive for over a decade in spite of some years barely having enough players to compete.  Hey, I can claim I have a "world" title thanks to him!  I think I have showed it by going every year after I won and stopped competing, just to judge and help keeping it going.  That is why last year I tried to make him see the writing on the wall and why when he asked me point blank a little over a week ago what I was going to do, I told him that I would try to go to Prague but I would make sure the spintop contest in Orlando was supported.

[Shootist]

Well since this is open for decussions here is my opinion. The Worlds Yoyo/Spintop Contest in Orlando has some main people that I consider to be the Cornerstone of the Spintop event. (ie. Dale & Val Oliver, Dick Stohr, Mike Hout, Jorge Alcoz and Eric Wolff.)  Without these people being present the spintop event tends to suffer. For example this year we all missed Eric Wolff and his wonderful yet skillful classes on Turning Spintops on a Lathe. His overall presents just adds to the event.

I think having another European/World Contest during the same dates as the Worlds Yoyo Contest Orlando would only divide the people between the 2 contests and weaken the Spintop Events.
For Example: You don't see Great Golfers like Tiger Woods having to decided between playing in the British Open Golf Tournament or the U.S. Open Golf Tournament both consider Major Golf events. Both are held at different times of the year to maximize participation of players and attendance.

(Participation at Worlds Spintops.) This forum has many skillful spintop players that I would like see coming to Worlds to compete in the event. However due to Economic issues, Work issues, etc. they don't come.  I would like to find a way to give them some incentives and encouragement to come. Any suggestions? 

However my sons and I love the World Yoyo/Spintop Contest and would hate to see it change.

Keep in mind this is my Opinion

Respectfully  Mike 

[jim in paris]

OK OK !!
here is my drop into the soup :
GReg after Dale has been the engine of the world yoyo and spintop contest
fact
that said the Czech have been successfully organizing the European yoyo contest, despite their lack of debate with the other euro countries , notably during the various euro-meetings since Jesolo...but  every one agreed and participated ,italians , french germans british and many others
the overall output is top level : live feed ,HD cameras,great stage and timing,cheap accommodation and entry fees .. etc 
fact
now if the dates of the WYYC are the same , that's a major bug!

it needs a compromise , just from the players view point ,

as far as we are concerned , spintop-wise, I would like to see the World
Spintop Contest in Mexico next year

why?
-not so far of you guys in the US
-chance to really meet another culture
- surf on the cometa wave ,with salvador gus and the other Hidalgos on site
-pretty sure TV coverage
-plenty of kids whom you'll never see at the Rozen
-for Ludo and me,having trompillo and Muzi  to help us with spanish  ;;--)))
- like Jorge we could all visit the cometa factory and dream ..
etc ....
the dates would have to fit central americas' s weather i suppose , in late summer would fine to me

now hear this:
if we have to create an international spintop association in order to patent the World spintop Contest ,
I volunteer


 to become the Chairman


how does sound , folks ?


jim

[Dick Stohr]

My thought when the conflict was announced was: why must they compete, why not complement. 
They got mad because GReg came upon a deadline and had to make a decision with the info he had.
The "move worlds idea" has been full of limited, bad, or no communication.

Jim, good thoughts.  It was very hard for the yo-yo community when it became necessary to walk away from the IJA.  Lots of work from a lot of really good people.

[the Earl of Whirl]

Ahh....the IJA days.  That is what is so amazing about this whole thing for me.  I remember very clearly those early years of the 90's when a few yo-yo people would gather in a corner at the IJA festival (International Jugglers Association) and do their own thing.  The group started growing and Dale got people involved in contests in the mid '90s.  Now the yo-yo community seems to continue to grow and do fairly well while the numbers at the IJA festivals have been dwindling.

I know Dick remembers those days very well.  So does Mark Hayward.  And of course Dale was there along with Jon Gates and others.  Actually, I remember Don Olney very well from those days!!!

[Gustin Joss]

OK OK !!
here is my drop into the soup :
GReg after Dale has been the engine of the world yoyo and spintop contest
fact
that said the Czech have been successfully organizing the European yoyo contest, despite their lack of debate with the other euro countries , notably during the various euro-meetings since Jesolo...but  every one agreed and participated ,italians , french germans british and many others
the overall output is top level : live feed ,HD cameras,great stage and timing,cheap accommodation and entry fees .. etc 
fact
now if the dates of the WYYC are the same , that's a major bug!

it needs a compromise , just from the players view point ,

as far as we are concerned , spintop-wise, I would like to see the World
Spintop Contest in Mexico next year

why?
-not so far of you guys in the US
-chance to really meet another culture
- surf on the cometa wave ,with salvador gus and the other Hidalgos on site
-pretty sure TV coverage
-plenty of kids whom you'll never see at the Rozen
-for Ludo and me,having trompillo and Muzi  to help us with spanish  ;;--)))
- like Jorge we could all visit the cometa factory and dream ..
etc ....
the dates would have to fit central americas' s weather i suppose , in late summer would fine to me

now hear this:
if we have to create an international spintop association in order to patent the World spintop Contest ,
I volunteer


 to become the Chairman


how does sound , folks ?


jim

(most of) THIS ^^^

[ta0]

I believe (and hope) that the Czechs will change the dates so the two contests do not coincide.  In fact, André told me that they had announced the dates without consulting Hinori and himself. It would hurt both contests, as shootist and Dick said, if that was not the case.  Still, for most people it will be impossible to go to both. The big test for Orlando will be in 2014 if the other one moves to Japan.

The idea of having a contest in Mexico will happen, sooner or later.  In fact, Humberto mentioned that "in a few years" Cometa would like to organize one and Cuper already offered to look for sponsors for one in Guadalajara as soon as next year. 

Eventually, spintops need to get from under the yo-yo umbrella so we can control our own destiny (and don't get relegated as an after thought addition to a yo-yo contest).  Even Greg said to me that one day it will happen and mentioned the yo-yo split from the IJA.  I think you are right Jim, it is time to start SPIN and you will get my vote for chairman.

[Gustin Joss]

I believe (and hope) that the Czechs will change the dates so the two contests do not coincide.  In fact, André told me that they had announced the dates without consulting Hinori and himself. It would hurt both contests, as shootist and Dick said, if that was not the case.  Still, for most people it will be impossible to go to both. The big test for Orlando will be in 2014 if the other one moves to Japan.

The idea of having a contest in Mexico will happen, sooner or later.  In fact, Humberto mentioned that "in a few years" Cometa would like to organize one and Cuper already offered to look for sponsors for one in Guadalajara as soon as next year. 

Eventually, spintops need to get from under the yo-yo umbrella so we can control our own destiny (and don't get relegated as an after thought addition to a yo-yo contest).  Even Greg said to me that one day it will happen and mentioned the yo-yo split from the IJA.  I think you are right Jim, it is time to start SPIN and you will get my vote for chairman.

Top heptathlon!

[the Earl of Whirl]

I am still confused about why we have to have one world championship?  In track and field there is an indoor world champion and an outdoor world champion.  In boxing and wrestling when there was interest (meaning they thought they could make some money) in having another world championship they simply got another name and had another event.  The same seems to be for other sports.  The world cup is a highly respected and highly anticipated event and the winner is considered champion of the world.  Why not a world cup of top spinning and then there would be that much more exposure  for our sport?  Other titles used by wrestling includes: International World Championship, Global Championship and Intercontinental Championship.  In body building they have the Universe Championship, the World Masters Championships and more.  Why do we have to shake things up with one competition in order to build another one up?  I say we don't.  Just find another name!