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Author Topic: Future online contests  (Read 3009 times)

Pepe

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Future online contests
« on: November 04, 2020, 05:07:16 AM »

Taka!

The quantity and quality of the Japan competitors was amazing, the japanese playlist give us endless hours of entertainment!!!

We dint spect so much contestants! It was crazy, next time having a Judge for every style should be nice!

We have lots of work to do on refinning scoring process and may be give more awards for different styles...

¿When do we start working for next year?
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jim in paris

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2020, 03:56:40 AM »

¿When do we start working for next year?


now :

yeah we should talk about next year's online world contest

no need for a poll to confirm the general feeling that the online world contest is here to stay and progress

to start the debate I have a few notes ready about the open and traditional category


1  abandon the peer judging process
will be replaced by a board of judges, unpar number , with a Head Judge for final decisions

2 make it mandatory to post one video per category entered

3 limit the number of entries at 10 players per country
if this option is adopted it means that each country will have to organize qualifying sessions

4 re-formulate the notion of Traditional freestyle

my input
allow more time (4mn?)
giving elements on tradition, country or region of origin will have to be put forward
remove the notion of "tricks" as  they appear in the open category
 and keep the notion of difficulty and risks taken


5 ban any t shirt or outfit with a brand mark
(example addidas t shirt in one video )


to be debated  8) ??? 8)

jim
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Patrick

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2020, 12:46:25 PM »

Despite not having participated in this World Cup, I was following the process and its difficulties. Without a doubt I think there are many things that can be improved (we can always improve).

My thoughts on Jim's notes to discuss:
1 abandon the peer judging process: I agree but I am left wondering how many judges in total would be a good number, maybe 5?

2 make it mandatory to post one video per category entered: Completely agree

3 limit the number of entries at 10 players per country: Strongly agree, as the community continues to grow and grow. I just have a question ... what would happen to players with dual nationality? For example in my case, assuming that there are already 10 players chosen in Mexico to participate ... could I play for France? and vice versa?

4 re-formulate the notion of Traditional freestyle:
I have no problem with your suggestions, nor do I consider myself the right person to comment since I hardly play with traditional tops :(
But if I would like there to be a category for Komas since I do not consider it fair that it is qualified the same as other traditional tops (for example the Colombians) since the tricks cannot be compared in the same way as well as the level of complexity. I would have loved for the Japanese to take first place, more than anything because they deserve it.

5 ban any t shirt or outfit with a brand mark:
I think that if the brand is sponsoring the player in a certain way or even the association it would be something positive, no?
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ta0

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2020, 01:01:02 PM »

Many people have expressed the desire to have more online contests in the future.
The main thing to debate is what title will be given? I don't think we want to replace the in person world contest with the online contest.
Should we have two different types of titles: World Spintop Champion and World Spintop Online Champion?
On the one hand the online contest lets players from all over the world participate without the barriers of cost, time and visa.
On the other hand, it's very different to get into a stage in front of a public of hundreds and have one chance at doing a good routine than to be by yourself in front of a camera and have tens (hundreds?) of attempts at the routine.

On the details there are lots of things that can be discussed.
Quote
1  abandon the peer judging process
will be replaced by a board of judges, unpar number , with a Head Judge for final decisions
I think it's clear that we'll not try the peer judging again at this level.

Quote
2 make it mandatory to post one video per category entered
I don't have a strong opinion on this one.

Quote
3 limit the number of entries at 10 players per country
if this option is adopted it means that each country will have to organize qualifying sessions
Personally, I don't agree on the limit per country.
But we need a pre-selection panel to separate those who are competitive from those that just enter to participate. With an extra week between the deadline of submission and the awards, this can be easily done.

Quote
4 re-formulate the notion of Traditional freestyle
Yes, we need to think about this. I was behind it's introduction to give a fair chance to styles of play that are slower. That may not be needed anymore, but there is a good reason to attract traditional play to the world contest as it makes it much more interesting and representative of the world top play. Perhaps, as I think Jim suggests, it should be an artistic performance title instead of a sport title.

Quote
5 ban any t shirt or outfit with a brand mark
(example addidas t shirt in one video )]5 ban any t shirt or outfit with a brand mark
(example addidas t shirt in one video )
Quote
I think that if the brand is sponsoring the player in a certain way or even the association it would be something positive, no?
I would only ban them if we have official contest sponsors and we see a conflict in that respect. It can be beneficial to players to get sponsorships that help them participate (e.g. Gaspar was sponsored by Wilson's Los Juguetes de mi Tierra Sumercé).

In about a month we will have the ITSA Annual General Assembly, and it would be the perfect time to decide some of these things, specially the overall question about having a in-person and an online world championship. Perhaps this year we can add some live zoom meetings. By the way, the board of directors doesn't come up for reelection until next year, but we could still have an expansion of the number of directors.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 09:34:04 AM by ta0 »
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Neff

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2020, 04:38:15 PM »

In order to preserve the various styles I believe we should crown champions in each of these categories:

Target Shooting
Chonkakegoma
Koma
Mexican Trompo
Columbian
Modern

Perhaps no overall world champion for the online events.
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Texture

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2020, 07:43:54 PM »

The main thing to debate is what title will be given? I don't think we want to replace the in person world contest with the online contest.
Should we have two different types of titles: World Spintop Champion and World Spintop Online Champion?

I think this will be one of the biggest problems with having an online contest; having an online contest discourages international players from entering in physical contests, as they can simply just compete in the virtual contest, instead of travelling to another country to compete for a world title.

So, I think that there should be a large difference between the two titles, otherwise nobody would take the time to travel to the physical contest.

What does everyone else think?

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Taka

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2020, 12:41:33 AM »

This time, more than expected player compete or "just join" the contest because it is "world" contest.
I really happy to see many players and variations of spintop.
We should have this again, and get more people to compete.(or just join).Need more USA players,too.

I did not judge, so just opinion from player side, top of 100 players is more value than top of 10 players.(again, just my opinion).So no limit each country and as many as possible player enter "1" division is good.
When I got media coverage, they asked to me how many people join for the world contest?I can't say, less than 10 people...
I respect and still need "real"(person) contest some how, but 22 countries,99 entry is good number to promote Spintop to media.

We should give some big recognition to players to give motivation.World title is one of the good example. I think many of Colombia/Mexico people is professional(and Philippine)."World Champion" is great reason why they join even pro and keep high level contest.

Idea
make 1 format(3min video?) and collect video from all over the world.
We can give some titles depends on style,theme and Gold and Silver award like music contest.This time,Pre-finalist and finalist works like that.
We also can set "players favorite champion".1 player can vote 1 best player only.It will be top of the world for online contest.

---
Or just Spintop Online Festival.
Is ok for me,but not sure it can give enough motivation to many people to join.
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jim in paris

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2020, 11:28:03 AM »

hello again
about Traditional performance

Perhaps, as I think Jim suggests, it should be an artistic performance title instead of a sport title.


examples of players that would have benefited from a different format in "traditional"
i-e more time to elaborate
 chonkake players +

Javier Cufre


taka


rocco


oscar


ricardo, vladimir etc ....

these presentations needn't be a world title;; but they are as precious as any "trick routine"

more feed back please , the debate is openly open

jim
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 11:32:05 AM by ta0 »
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ta0

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2020, 10:58:58 PM »

Perhaps no overall world champion for the online events.
This is an interesting proposal.

Perhaps we can call the online titles, ITSA International Champion?

I did not judge, so just opinion from player side, top of 100 players is more value than top of 10 players.(again, just my opinion).So no limit each country and as many as possible player enter "1" division is good.
When I got media coverage, they asked to me how many people join for the world contest?I can't say, less than 10 people...
I respect and still need "real"(person) contest some how, but 22 countries,99 entry is good number to promote Spintop to media.

I agree this is a good reason not to limit the number of players per country.
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Daveid

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2020, 11:53:00 PM »

i think we need an online set of champions but the trophies should be files for 3d printed trophies and if you have access to 3d printing you can print it however you like and if you don't there's plenty of online 3d print shops that can 3d print stuff for you for a price... virtual trophy for virtual contest.

i was really excited for peer review contest considering i no longer know how you score things and was a little disheartened when someone told me afterwards that repeated tricks don't get any score... now i know a little more what one person meant when he said something about not participating because he didnt like how the scoring system was in favor of fixed tip play (considering that regen tricks require a certain number of repetitions to count, or am i remembering wrong? it's been a while).
is there no way to combine peer review and judge review? or have a seperate finalist... judged champion and people's choice award.
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Pepe

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2020, 03:56:16 PM »

We need special judges for every style

We need a form to score the different aspects of each category.

I would love to see a "batalla de gallos" or "Cock figth" kind of contests, I think this would work like a charm for a live competition.

Also best trick would be a nice category to promote creativity.

Now is hard but I would love to have a "best spintop performance" award for a routine with public.

Those are just ideas... brainstorming...

And sooner than later define a poll to send the participants of this championship to get some feedback!!
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CUPER

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2020, 12:00:13 PM »

Hola a todos .
Después de este mundial en línea creo los resultados en resumen fueren muy buenos para mismo trompos.
Mis sugerencias serían estás a considerar.
1.tener jueces (experimentados ,campeónes mundiales , competidoress mundiales ,)para calificación.
2.cambiar el nombre de campeón mundial en linea,(Neff) festival de trompo en linea (taka)me parece ideal ya que por mi experiencia es estar en un escenario es más complejo y difícil y las oportunidades de error son cero ..
3.impulsar y tener un campeonato para mujeres
4.cobrar un monto a todos los competidores ya que como organización siempre los dineros son importantes para seguir creciendo y apoyando eventos como se han estado haciendo.
5.trabajar en buscar patrocinadores .
6.creo que limitar jugadores por país sería algo difícil por ejemplo en México existen más de 100 jugadores profesionales ,más los que están surgiendo esperando cada año como asociacion méxicana de trompo poder tener más mexicanos .
7.habemos empresas que patrocinamos tanto como a jugadores nacionales para eventos (encuentros ,campeonatos ) creo que poder poner la marca de algún patrocinador es bueno .
8.la idea de Neff de coronar en cada categoría es una idea muy buena.
9.tener una competencia o reconocimiento a los videos artisticos (rocco,Javier ,taka ,trumpa master) por mencionar algunos creo que esa modalidad hay bastantes
Buenos actos con trompo que no pueden quedar fuera .
Saludos cordiales
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 01:00:25 PM by ta0 »
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jim in paris

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2020, 01:34:39 AM »

hello again

it would be good to have more inputs on this topic,
before the ITSA's general assembly which will take place next month .

to sum up with my 1st post

  1  abandon the peer judging process
will be replaced by a board of judges, unpar number , with a Head Judge for final decisions

agreed

2 make it mandatory to post one video per category entered

agreed

3 limit the number of entries at 10 players per country

rejected

 no limit in the number of contestants

agreed

4 re-formulate the notion of Traditional freestyle

to be debated

other ideas
best trick would be a nice category to promote creativity.
impulsar y tener un campeonato para mujeres
people's choice award.

overall view by taka

"......22 countries,99 entry is good number to promote Spintop to media.
We should give some big recognition to players to give motivation.
World title is one of the good example.
I think many of Colombia/Mexico people is professional(and Philippine).
"World Champion" is great reason why they join even pro and keep high level contest..."

5 ban of brand names on t shirts / clothes
rejected



no changes in the Ladder and open freestyle categories


more feedback please


jim (itsa chairman till december *****]]°°)





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Neff

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2020, 10:51:33 AM »

For future online contests, I do not want to loose the authenticity of the Columbian and Chonkake styles. To me it is very very important to crown champions in different styles to not only preserve but also promote these wonderful unique cultural styles. Same for Koma, Mexican Trompo and Theatrical (target shooting, etc). I think players like Guillem, Eli Hickerson, Jose Madrigal, Tyler Young, and several others all have a regeneration based flow style that needs a category that I would call Modern or maybe Regen-Flow. Then perhaps one more category that I would call Banger (working on a better name), where players with many tops and few regens can show us high risk whips and double top action. I could elaborate but I'm out of time for the moment.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 10:20:46 PM by Neff »
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Neff

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Re: Future online contests
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2020, 10:27:22 PM »

I think this would help preserve important characteristics of each style, like in the Mexican trompo division we would expect to see winding. I know we have advised these players to stop winding during routines because they're losing precious time, but it seems it's an integral part of their routine, of what they do when they are going into schools and entertaining the children. The repetitive turns of Chonkake are an important part of the atmosphere of that style, but would have to be abandoned to have a chance in a collective division. Just a few examples and thoughts that are on my head at the moment
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