iTopSpin

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Author Topic: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games  (Read 10525 times)

alan850627

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« on: February 29, 2016, 11:34:34 PM »

Hi everyone, this is Alan from Austin, Texas. I met Ta0 at the Austin JuggleFest this past weekend and he introduced me to this forum. Glad to be here! Short intro: I am a native Taiwanese from Fongshan, now I’m studying Electrical Engineering at UT Austin. I saw from previous posts that there’re some interest in Taiwanese tops so I thought I’d share what I know.

Here is my little collection:



I got all these around when I was in first grade in Taiwan (2000~2001) when my grandpa taught me how to spin it on the ground. The top second from the left was the one that was most common in “school supply” stores everywhere. As of now, the most common one I see in stores is the one third from the left. The first four are made of solid wood, the fifth one I believe is plastic. The last one is made out of glass! When it was new, LEDs on the top of the top would light up when you spin it. As you can see I already cracked glass and the LEDs no longer work.

From previous posts, I know you guys know that there’re “top clubs” at schools in Taiwan, with the most famous team from Mei-Hua Elementary School. My elementary school didn’t have a top team, but two other schools in my district did. However, I do not know if they still do today… the children population is decreasing rapidly in Taiwan. Anyway, it’s unfortunate that I don’t see people play with tops on the streets anymore. Back in my grandpa’s generation, tops was a very common toy children played with and battle; in fact, most of them make their own! My grandpa was one of those kids (he was born in 1930s under Japanese rule).
If you’re interested, here is how he made tops:
  • Find hard wood. The harder the better, or your top would break or crack when you battle with other tops. The most common wood they’d use was from the trunk of “Longan”.
  • Cut and shape the top with a blade. This process usually takes multiple days.
  • Dig a small hole on the bottom of the top with a nail for the tip to be inserted later.
  • Find a tip. My grandpa said this is by far the hardest part. He said people commonly look for square nail heads for the tip (instead of round tips used today) for the string to grip better when you battle. The good news is, if your top breaks, you can always collect the tip and reuse it.
  • Soak the top in water in preparation to insert the tip. Apparently if you hammer in the tip when the wood is dry, the entire top would crack.
  • Hammer in the tip.
  • Optional: Sharpen the tip for battling.
   
As you can imagine there aren’t standard sizes for those handmade tops. They can range from just 3cm to 10+cm in diameter.
There’re multiple ways to play tops with your friends. The easiest was to compare how long your top can stay spinning. The second game is top battling. This game is nowhere to be seen today. Only people over ~50 years old played this. I am glad my grandpa passed it on to me. The traditional name for the game is pronounced Ding-Gan-Log in Taiwanese; the literal translation is “Hammer Top”. Here’re the rules, it is very similar to a game of marbles:
Prep:
  • Draw a circle/ring in the sand.
  • Each player puts an agreed amount of tops into the ring as the “starting bid”.
   
Then, each player takes turn smashing the tops in the ring in hopes to knock tops out of the ring. In each turn, you gain tops (and you get to keep it) if you managed to knock tops out of the ring. Of course, you can lose tops too. You’d lose a top (and it gets placed in the ring) if:
  • Your top did not land inside the ring. (bad at aiming?)
  • Your top stopped spinning after landing. (this is why square nails for maximum grip is crucial)
  • Your top stops inside the ring. (This happens very often on sand)
The game ends when there’re no more tops in the ring.

As you can probably imagine, they’d use lots of force to throw the tops. This is why the game is called “Hammer Top”. With the tips made out of sharp nails, the top landing in the sand looks like someone hammered a nail. Oh, also bonus points if you’re able to break someone else’s top in the process.

It’s hard to find a video of this game, since no one plays it anymore, but I managed to find a video of two old men reminiscing their childhood game here, while describing the rules to bystanders: .

They’re playing on concrete in this video, but usually the game is played on sand.

Maybe next time at a festival we should play a game of traditional Taiwanese “Top Hammering” ;)

That’s it for now. Anything unclear above or anything questions about Taiwan feel free to ask me. I also speak fluent Mandarin and Taiwanese, so if anyone needs a video translation…etc. Let me know. I’m so glad I’m introduced to this great community!
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 11:39:12 PM by alan850627 »
Logged

Jack

  • Demigod member
  • **********
  • Posts: 3389
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2016, 12:18:13 AM »

welcome home alan @-@
your knowledge is invaluable!!!!!!
Logged

ta0

  • Administrator
  • Olympus member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14316
    • www.ta0.com
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2016, 12:24:53 AM »

It is great that you joined the forum, Alan!  :)
As Jack said, your knowledge is invaluable. Many times we have struggled with videos from Taiwan and China that explained things verbally.

Thanks for taking the time to explain in detail the traditional fabrication of a top.
And the video you posted very clearly shows the rules of that type of battle.
Yes, next year at Jugglefest we need to organize a spintop battle!  >:D

Welcome!
Logged

the Earl of Whirl

  • ITSA
  • Olympus member
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8029
    • St. Jacob Lutheran with a tops page
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2016, 08:04:54 AM »

Lots of great information.  Thanks for sharing it and thanks for joining the forum.

It sounds to me like the Austin Jugglefest will be the place to be for top spinners in the coming years!!!
Logged
Happiness runs in a circular motion!!!

johnm

  • Ultrahero member
  • *******
  • Posts: 892
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2016, 09:06:16 PM »

Thanks Alan for joining and sharing your historical insight passed on by an eye witness.  Too much information like that has probably already been lost.  I hope the battle style play might be reintroduced at the school clubs to help preserve the tradition and the kids would probably enjoy it based on the popularity of the Japanese beyblade battle enthusiasm.

Here is a video that I don't think has been posted before featuring the instructor we've often enjoyed.  Looks like some good ideas for the fire show at the Austin Juggle fest.  Also a starting technique for the large tops without requiring the lift and throw is demonstrated by some small boys.  Quite impressive.

Logged

the Earl of Whirl

  • ITSA
  • Olympus member
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8029
    • St. Jacob Lutheran with a tops page
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2016, 09:39:21 PM »

Very nice video, johnm.  The interviewer is fun to listen to with all her excitement.  And the team rope pulling to get that big top going is new to me.  Good idea!!!

Thanks for posting it.
Logged

ta0

  • Administrator
  • Olympus member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14316
    • www.ta0.com
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2016, 10:53:20 PM »

The video Alan posted at about 3:40 shows tops with platforms with walls on the the crown that become targets for the next top: I think it is the first time I see them.

On John's video the fire (candle?) top works very well and it would definitely be a good idea for jugglefest (but I would prefer the string on fire  >:D ). By the way, I don't think that at an elementary school over here they would allow walking a spintop on fire over the kids . . .
Alan wrote to me that he believes that the number that appears on some of these tops is the weight in "jin" ("caty") units, equivalent to 600 gr. in Taiwan. So the top that says 100 would weight 60 kg.
The name of the coach appears to be Wu Jianwu (吳建五).
« Last Edit: December 28, 2022, 12:48:30 AM by ta0 »
Logged

alan850627

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2016, 12:05:11 AM »

The video Alan posted at about 3:40 shows tops with platforms with walls on the the crown that become targets for the next top: I think it is the first time I see them.

Too bad both of them missed the target ;D.

Alan wrote to me that he believes that the number that appears on some of these tops is the weight in "jin" units, equivalent to 600 gr. So the top that says 100 would weight 60 kg.

This is correct. In fact, at 5:06 in the video johnm posted, you can see the character followed by 100 is "Jin". This is again confirmed at 5:14 when she said "60kg!" (you can see the 60 in the subtitles xD).

That top on fire is neat!
Logged

alan850627

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2016, 03:39:27 AM »

I hope the battle style play might be reintroduced at the school clubs to help preserve the tradition and the kids would probably enjoy it based on the popularity of the Japanese beyblade battle enthusiasm.

Agreed. I don't know why they don't teach it to those in the club. Perhaps too dangerous? Then again, they're already walking a spintop on fire over the kids... Japanese beyblade was also huge in Taiwan when I was in elementary school. Almost every kid had one.
Logged

jim in paris

  • ITSA
  • Demigod member
  • **********
  • Posts: 3907
  • "oeuvre de coeur prend tout un homme
    • my vids on  youtube
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2016, 01:35:25 PM »

hello there, thanx Alan for joining the club

Ludo and I and many other players ,we have been taught the Taiwanese tops by Mr Liu last year
the long target throw can be learned easily : at the Marines festival Quentin got the right instructions and within an hour or so, could hit the target ;
same for Daniel and Jakub last week end
i'm saying that to encourage anyone who would think "it's not for me" to reconsider this statement
it's such a great feeling to feel this 4 to 6 m of string unwrap and release the top perfectly straight!

about the fire wirewalker i'm not sure Mr Liu would approve ..but again ,once you get the right nylon string the rest is a question of speed and coordination

Taiwanese tops should be a compulsory at the world spintop contest
 8) 8)

one more vid : the kids are alright !!§§






jim
Logged
"oeuvre de coeur prend tout un homme"

alan850627

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2016, 06:28:10 PM »

it's such a great feeling to feel this 4 to 6 m of string unwrap and release the top perfectly straight!

Indeed! Although I'm not so good at that yet. I don't have any elevated target to practice with... Still thinking of ways to improvise one.

tops with platforms with walls on the the crown that become targets for the next top: I think it is the first time I see them.

I found another video showing the hollow(?) top. The sound it made when it landed certainly sounds like a hollow top (0:25 in the video). He was able to get another top inside at around 1:14. I love those kids' reactions ;D They are certainly super excited about those tops.


P.S. The guy in the video is the same street performer who plays with the 110 Jin top. His "stage name" is the first three characters of the title of that video. Copy and paste and you can google him. Foreign characters doesn't show up when I post it here.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 06:33:03 PM by alan850627 »
Logged

Watts' Tops

  • ITSA Jr.
  • Superhero member
  • ******
  • Posts: 630
    • www.wattstops.com
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2016, 08:54:38 PM »

Welcome to the form.  Enjoyed reading how the Taiwanese top is/was made.  Enjoyed the videos as well.  Thanks for sharing.
Logged
Watts' Tops
Prov. 3:5-6

Aerobie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 267
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2016, 11:45:15 PM »


These are the very impressive Spintop Snipers.  Are they Tiawanese?
Alan
Logged

Nocto

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2016, 11:55:49 PM »

I believe so. They are definitely in Taiwan, at least.

I found their behind the scenes video, if you are interested.

Logged

Jack

  • Demigod member
  • **********
  • Posts: 3389
Re: Traditional Taiwanese Tops and Games
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2016, 12:00:15 AM »


These are the very impressive Spintop Snipers.  Are they Tiawanese?
Alan

yes sir traditional taiwanese "tuoluo" tops  ;)
they are most excellent fun to throw  ;D
Logged