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[Gustin Joss]

[Note from admin: I split this topic as the original thread "to Takeshi" had been hijacked.]

I spoke to Brandon Jackson and Takeshi at the Indiana State Yo Yo Contest last weekend, no tour on the books right now.  E-mail Duncan and tell them how that gives us a frowny-face.  Seriously.

I emailed Duncan and the fact that they never reply gives me a frowny face. It is BS that they continue to sell a product with a string that is too short accompanied by instructions that are written under the assumption that one is playing with a string of proper length (btw, the instructions are good--presumably Mark, Neff, and Takeshi wrote them). They knowingly sell toys that are destined not to work for beginners and that is reprehensible. Who knows how many beginners they have turned off to spintops...

They should be ashamed of themselves. They know the strings are too short and are apparently only interested in selling one top, to one person, once. Except, wait, as accomplished players, we perpetuate their bad business by buying their tops and just using our own string. Treacherous business makes me burn with the fire of 1000 suns--especially when it affects children who might be spending their allowance to buy a toy that is predestined to fail which could in turn weaken their self esteem. "I must be dumb, I am doing exactly what the instructions say, but it is not working." Shenanigans. I am going to write them another email.

[poptop]

I've had mixed success emailing folks at Duncan, but to their credit, they have always treated me well when I've called them on the phone.  Old fashioned, I know...but they are an 80 year old company after all.

I wish tops were a bigger part of their business, but they are clearly not a priority.  It's a bummer because Duncan could do a lot more given their brand equity, manufacturing capability, player network, etc., etc.   I'm still holding out hope they step up to the plate as I think it will be good for top spinning.

We all want the kids to have a good experience--I suppose we have to do a little extra to help them learn. 

Maybee e-mails and conversations with customers will will help Duncan learn too?

[kevinm]

One thing I would suggest before any correspondace with Duncan is a little reflection on what they have given to the community for many decades. Also keeping in mind that
Flambeau is not exactly a toy company.
Besides inventing the yo-yo for the American market, they have offered low cost tops and
yo-yos nonstop, even when the sales booms went bust and the other short lived companies came and went.

What I am saying is that the good will and support of contests, tours, and a world wide crew might be enough to offset a short string in a loss leader in the American market.
If you look around at how many children are buying tops, it's remarkable they are still making them. As much as Duncan may love to make skill toys, it probably shouldn't be at the cost of going bankrupt (again).

[Gustin Joss]

One thing I would suggest before any correspondace with Duncan is a little reflection on what they have given to the community for many decades. Also keeping in mind that
Flambeau is not exactly a toy company.
Besides inventing the yo-yo for the American market, they have offered low cost tops and
yo-yos nonstop, even when the sales booms went bust and the other short lived companies came and went.

What I am saying is that the good will and support of contests, tours, and a world wide crew might be enough to offset a short string in a loss leader in the American market.
If you look around at how many children are buying tops, it's remarkable they are still making them. As much as Duncan may love to make skill toys, it probably shouldn't be at the cost of going bankrupt (again).

At this point, I think they should stop making tops. I am sure Spintastics would be more than happy to absorb Duncan's "loss leader." (By the way, I do not think that means what you think it means). A 15 buck BK is definitely not being sold at a loss considering the molds already exist. Plus, the sell of a BK is not used to stimulate purchases of higher priced items.

If Duncan looked around to see how many children ARE NOT buying tops, maybe they would attribute the lack of sales to negative word of mouth marketing, or a buddy saying, "Don't waste your money on that, it doesn't work." The only thing keeping it from working is a three cent piece of string.

A true tour, as noted above, does not exist, the spintop players in the crew rely on heavily modded tops that barely resemble BKs after the cap is drilled out, weight washers are added, S8 tips are installed, and "performance" tape is put into place, and the good deeds of the past cannot make up for knowingly selling a faulty product because buying a new spool of string and cutting it to proper length would cost too much. I would be happy with them supplying two strings that kids could tie together and then cut to length. Should we just keep giving them our money out of nostalgia for the golden years?

[topper777]

i use the stock tip with all my bearing kings and diet rc. they work just fine. to let something like a cheap piece of string get in the way of your so called judgement, is funny and baffling at the same time. all my duncan tops are great. even when they came out of the box they were not that bad off. true, once you add a couple of mods the top becomes much better but the top doesnt play itself. maybe it could be the players error on skill???

much luv to DUNCAN !!!

[Gustin Joss]

i use the stock tip with all my bearing kings and diet rc. they work just fine. to let something like a cheap piece of string get in the way of your so called judgement, is funny and baffling at the same time. all my duncan tops are great. even when they came out of the box they were not that bad off. true, once you add a couple of mods the top becomes much better but the top doesnt play itself. maybe it could be the players error on skill???

much luv to DUNCAN !!!

"i use the stock tip with all my bearing kings and diet rc. they work just fine."

My bad, I did not know you were on Duncan Crew.

"to let something like a cheap piece of string get in the way of your so called judgement, is funny and baffling at the same time."

I have no idea what that means.

"but the top doesnt play itself. maybe it could be the players error on skill???"

Go buy a brand new BK, give it to a kid who has never played before, and encourage him or her to figure it out. I don't really know what "error on skill" means, but I am guessing, combined with my funny and baffling "so-called judgment," that you are trying to say I am only upset because I was/am not good enough to figure out how to play a BK. Is that what you are trying to say?

[kevinm]

SirBoot32, if you want to explain retail to me, please feel free, more years than i can comfortably admit of working in it have made me a little thick skinned. but please don't assume that because i don't share your opinion, that i don't understand what i am saying.
 i may be completely wrong, but i have reasons for making those comments.( i'm often in error, never in doubt).  at any rate, my post was made in the spirit of having a 'top forum' where people share their views. it is my view that this forum wouldn't exist if it were not for duncan, even though lots of the people that post here don't throw duncan.
anyways i'm going to turn off the computer and go play with my toys.
apologies for hijacking your thread Dojo-yoyo7.

[ta0]

Admin note: Sorry I erased your message SirBoot32 but at some point I had to stop the flaming dynamics.

=================

SirBoot32 has a good point in that I am sure the short string sold for many years with Duncan tops (I don't know what the current length is) frustrated a whole generation of would be players.  I have no doubt about it.  It is probably the reason why I never got into throwing Duncan: I learned to throw with a Monarch and Spintastics, then I got a Ripcord and found out that I had to throw it very soft and left it aside. Months later I figured out my problem was a short string but the "love" was gone.

Another example is the groove on the crown.  The "Magic Winding Groove" was invented by Duncan in the 60's to facilitate winding and I bet also to avoid the snap back that the wooden tops with the convex crown are prone to.  When Duncan went plastic with a square crown this was not a problem anymore and the groove disappeared.  I think bringing back the groove in the Storm series could have been a good idea, it is a distinctive feature.  But instead of giving it the slant it had on the wooden tops, shallow on one side and deep on the knot side, it was made deep and flat. So now the groove creates the snap back problem it originally was meant to eliminate!  I completely understand that mistakes can be made.  But after 12 years (twelve!) the mold has not been corrected!

Duncan has been fundamental in the history of yo-yos and tops and perhaps Kevin is right, we would not be here if it wasn't because of what Duncan has done in the past. But during the last decade it has not helped much the top scene.  I am very curious to see what happens when a pure spintop company like Cometa starts a heavy push in the US.

[poptop]

Where's the love?  Oh, it must be stuck in customs!

[the Earl of Whirl]

I really enjoyed "it makes me burn with the fire of a thousand suns".  Thanks for that colorful writing, SirBoot32.

ta0's experience with learning top spinning sounds very familiar to what has occured in my life.

My oldest son uses the word "shenanigans" at times and it always makes me laugh.  Thanks for making me feel right at home!

[Neff]

The new Bearing Kings (and Rip Cords I think) are made in Mexico.  You may notice the string length in the packages is very close to that found on many smaller Mexican trompos (shorter string) that are sold with rings (even shorter string). My theory is that the production company in Mexico is disregarding Duncan's requests to include longer strings in the packages because they think it does not need any longer of a string than the other tops they are making.  Just a theory.  I mentioned it to Brandon once again at Indy states and assured me they are working on it.

[Gustin Joss]

Where's the love?  Oh, it must be stuck in customs!

^^^LOVE^^^

[Gustin Joss]

I really enjoyed "it makes me burn with the fire of a thousand suns".  Thanks for that colorful writing, SirBoot32.

ta0's experience with learning top spinning sounds very familiar to what has occured in my life.

My oldest son uses the word "shenanigans" at times and it always makes me laugh.  Thanks for making me feel right at home!

Ha! Thanks. That is my favorite word and my girlfriends least favorite word.

Here is why:

Laura--"I think we should go for a ten mile walk and then eat/drink a kale smoothie."

Justin--"SHENANIGANS!"

[czyoyo]

 

Where's the love?  Oh, it must be stuck in customs!

 

[topper777]

i use the stock tip with all my bearing kings and diet rc. they work just fine. to let something like a cheap piece of string get in the way of your so called judgement, is funny and baffling at the same time. all my duncan tops are great. even when they came out of the box they were not that bad off. true, once you add a couple of mods the top becomes much better but the top doesnt play itself. maybe it could be the players error on skill???

much luv to DUNCAN !!!

"i use the stock tip with all my bearing kings and diet rc. they work just fine."

My bad, I did not know you were on Duncan Crew.

"to let something like a cheap piece of string get in the way of your so called judgement, is funny and baffling at the same time."

I have no idea what that means.

"but the top doesnt play itself. maybe it could be the players error on skill???"

Go buy a brand new BK, give it to a kid who has never played before, and encourage him or her to figure it out. I don't really know what "error on skill" means, but I am guessing, combined with my funny and baffling "so-called judgment," that you are trying to say I am only upset because I was/am not good enough to figure out how to play a BK. Is that what you are trying to say?

  to clear up ANY confusion, i never said i was on the duncan crew!!! read the thread carefully next time.

[Watts' Tops]

Just a word about Duncan's Bankruptcy.  It was over sued for the name yo yo.  They had it and lost.  I interviewed with Duncan 2 weeks before the case was finalized.  I was told, "If we survive in the next couple of weeks, you have a job."  That came from the top in Evanston, IL.  They were doing well but got sued out of business.  Flambo bought them out someway or other.