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[kyo]

I meant that that big hollow wood tops were easier to make than a take apart version, that's all.

The only reason metal tops seize is because nobody has either A) Used brass threads or B) hard coated the aluminum. All of the metal bk prototypes used a brass ring I believe, though the final version I believe will be a hardcoat anodizing. Hardcoat doesn't seize, brass doesn't either.

Metal tops are machined from 2 pieces of aluminum, one for the body, one for the crown.

Making a hollow crown would be a trivial thing to do.

The bk prototypes were designed to mimic the exact characteristics of the original bk as far as play and feel.. mostly because nobody could tell me what they'd want to change aside from removing the ridges. I did this by building a precise 3d replica of the original, mathematically calculating all of its spin characteristics and adjusting the aluminum version to match them exactly. If the consensus is that a hollow crown is better, I can make that change before the final batch of prototypes is made.. it'll probably be a few months before that happens.

Kyle

[ta0]

Yes, I think an open crown would definitely make the metal BK a better top.  The S8 and the Diet RCs appeared after we gave you feedback on the metal BK, so it did not occur to us (and I don't usually throw Duncan tops, anyway).

[poptop]

I can make that change before the final batch of prototypes is made.. it'll probably be a few months before that happens.

Wow, exciting news!  Thanks for pushing this along Kyo.

I think most folks who would want an aluminium BK (me, me, me!) wouldn't miss the "winding groove" or the power spinner/hole.  I'd like to see an open crown, one that could accept future accessories.  I wonder what others think about this?

Kyo, when you mention "recalculating the spin characteristics", does this mean moment of inertia, center of gravity and overall weight?  Anything else?

Another thing that I think many of us would love to see is a revised tip shape.  I'd imagine you've already heard that though.  I do throw my Duncan tops, much more so now that i have modified the tips.

[kyo]

The current metal bk design, for those who haven't seen them.

Differences from a normal BK
- about 8g heavier overall
- no ridges on the body
- no groove or anything on the crown
- revised tip shape to better match the requests of various top players.. bigger tip, more rounded

Then of course it is a 3-in-1 top. It can switch between a fixed tip, bearing tip, or 1wb tip by moving around some of the guts. Now nobody has seen the final design for this, but it is much revised from the previous versions (as in it works properly and the tip doesn't jiggle).. I figured out how to eliminate all the problems I was having with consistency.

Now if the consensus is an open crown, it's an easy change to make.. and it sounds like it is?

As for the math involved..

I used the same basic system I use for yo-yos. I calculate things like moment of inertia, radius of gyration, center of gravity, weight distribution (a fairly complicated thing in a top, so I broke it into about 10 different segments), overall weight, etc. From this I can simulate all sorts of things, such as how it will behave spinning at a given RPM, how long it will spin from a given RPM, how prone it is to precession, etc.

Kyle

[Neff]

Open crown, pretty, pretty please.  AND:  Please make the outer diameter slightly smaller than the original BK... no bigger than 33.9mm.
This will allow the imperial ring to fit over it if a player should choose to want to do ring tricks with it.

[poptop]

Ring tricks.   

Sound like the start of a new thread?

FWIW, they could also be done on a double tip or "colombian knob" accessory.

[kyo]

ring tricks? You've lost me on that one

With an open crown, it would certainly be possible to create press-in accessories like a douple tip.

Kyle

[Neff]

Old video, and I haven't taken in much further since, but I saw some videos of Mexican players who do some tricks with the ring and came up with this:



I've been able to do an upside down crazy 8 on the ring with a Blizzard...

[jim in paris]

hi folks , salut kyle ,

thanx for your efforts into the alu BK project
all the specs you have quoted are ok
including the open crown

now from what you wrote "I can simulate all sorts of things, such as how it will behave spinning at a given RPM, how long it will spin from a given RPM, how prone it is to precession, etc."
you should look at Jorge's chart on decay time for BK compared to a gates or a topdog
it would be one more element in your research
Jorge could you post the link ?

additional question
if it's gonna be a DUNCAN , I mean a "production" top , how far do you think the price tag should go ? 30 ?  50? 100? more ?
it's one question worth considering : we spintop amateurs will spend whatever it is just for the fun of it
but after the 1st 50 sold , what else ? ideally , duncan should act as for the metal FHZ, a reasonably priced high class yoyo

...//////////////////
ball in your field 

jim

[kyo]

now from what you wrote "I can simulate all sorts of things, such as how it will behave spinning at a given RPM, how long it will spin from a given RPM, how prone it is to precession, etc."
you should look at Jorge's chart on decay time for BK compared to a gates or a topdog
it would be one more element in your research
Jorge could you post the link ?

additional question
if it's gonna be a DUNCAN , I mean a "production" top , how far do you think the price tag should go ? 30 ?  50? 100? more ?
it's one question worth considering : we spintop amateurs will spend whatever it is just for the fun of it
but after the 1st 50 sold , what else ? ideally , duncan should act as for the metal FHZ, a reasonably priced high class yoyo

I never compared the numbers for the BK to other tops, simply because I was never ask to. What Duncan wanted, and what the team members who threw tops wanted, was a metal version of the BK. I know it doesn't spin as long as something like the gates with a huge weight ring, but it seems to be a reasonable balance between staying stable and being able to force it to turn how you want. I know this is why Matt Ritter used them almost exclusively, he could make it do what he wanted without having to fight it. Now this won't be the preference for everybody of course, but it was what I was ask to replicate

It will be production in the same sense that some of their metal products have been.. short run, not dirt cheap. It will be made in the US in a quantity of 100-200 tops, which should last them quite a while in the current top market. If they had a demand for a $30-40 spintop such that they could sell a few thousand of them in a year, they'd likely have no problem making a chinese version that could sell in that price range.. but we aren't at that point yet.

Kyle