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[the Earl of Whirl]

I hear what you are saying Mr. Neff.  But maybe I am not going for a long run this time around at worlds.  Each year I have tried to shake things up quite a bit.  I can tell you this, I really doubt if I use a one way bearing for anything.

Actually, maybe this should be the year I take some time off?  I have done this for four years in a row.  Nobody else has done it that long in the recent series of worlds.  I have plenty of things to work on and if we don't have plans for worlds then I can't plan, either.

[John Buechele]

I've been back and forth over what I think will work best. Ultimately I think that two divisions, fixed and bearing will allow for the most competitors, and for this year no 1wb. I think I like the idea of a one way bearing "throwdown" if you will. This could be done in similar format to the european contest where each contestant gets one throw each round. And we could do either 2 or 3 rounds.

I guess ultimately, like Mike I want to see a decision made soon. I have been practicing a lot recently and it makes a big difference to me if I need to be practicing two 3 minute freestyles, fixed and bearing, or just one.

What is the ultimate goal of the competitors and aspiring competitors here?

Our ultimate goal as aficionados is to make tops as popular as possible. The tweaks to the rules have always tried to attract the largest number of competitors.
Now, if you are actually competing for a title you may have reservations about making it too competitive before you win. But you still want enough contestants to make it real.  And, of course, afterward you will want it to become widely popular   

Personally I want to see as many contestants as possible. This past year I finished 4th in fixed out of 6 I think. And 6th out of maybe 10 in freestyle (forgive me for not remembering the total number of competitors). Overall I am fifth out of 10 overall. I would much rather finish 15 out of 20 or 25 out of 30. What I mean is if there are more competitors and all of them are that much better than me that only gives me more incentive to practice and get better. After Matt Ritter won in 2007, he came to Miamisburg. When he went to world's that year he said that he hadn't played tops too much in the past year. But his play style was so much further along than most people that his best tricks weren't being duplicated or out done. No offense to any other competitor that year (especially the ones on this board), the point is that Matt got really really good over the course of one year, and then put his tops away after he won in 2006. He won in 2007 after not really developing anything new.

I don't want to see the same tricks winning each year. I want to see neff go crazy with two tops. I want to see Jorge back on stage showing off regeneration mastery. No one can predict what Mike will come up with but I want to see that too. But even more than all of that I want to see a dozen new competitors who we've never seen before push limits and boundaries that none of us have even explored.

Lets go with a standard contest, fixed and bearing. These tops are readily available to the masses and allow for the most fair competition.

[ta0]

Ok. This year at Worlds we will have again two freestyles, bearing and fixed tip, with titles for each and also a combined title, like last year. 

We may also try an unofficial round-robin contest both for fun and a test of a different format. Perhaps something with a pool of money as the couple of "pro" contest we had before.

I am sorry for the delay in deciding this, I am working till midnight every day (I already missed a deadline) but this should be over by the end of the week. Of course, I still need to take my spintop breaks to remain sane 

[poptop]

These tops are readily available to the masses and allow for the most fair competition.

Good point.

[John Buechele]

Ta0 thank you very much for your time and effort. I certainly appreciate everything you do for top spinning and the advancement of our sport. And I know you will do what is best for everyone. Thanks a lot.

[MrYo]

These tops are readily available to the masses and allow for the most fair competition.

Good point.

This is THE POINT, this year people can start to play with 1wb, maybe a demo and a workshop could be interesting. In the meanwhile i will look for a partner with the goal to make a cheap molded top, the light version of my works, i think this top  easly upgradable for contest pourposes with my tips and bearings.

 

Maurizio

[John Buechele]

MrYo I can't wait to get my hands on sofia and take her for a spin  And I also truly appreciate all of your efforts for the top spinning community. You have truly set the standard for high quality tops. On a side note I recently received my two Giulia's via Neff and they are truly awesome tops. 

[Dizzy]

I know this has been decided for this year, but they say there's no horse too dead to beat, right?

That said, it occurred to me that maybe we should consider doing away with a combined title in the future.  In a way, it is already a bit redundant, but more importantly, I think it may actually work against what I think we are seeking to accomplish in the first place with the splitting of divisions .

There's no combined yoyo title is there?

[Neff]

2010 was the first year in a while they didn't do a combined yo-yo division.  I saw some of it in 2009, and nobody was really paying attention.  But the sheer difference in number of players and clear separation of styles of play make comparing the two sports like comparing apples and oranges, at least to me anyway.

Even if the overall title were done away with, it doesn't alleviate the one way bearing problem... not many one way tops out there yet.  Maurizio is about to change that a little bit, but there are still issues, like the Duncan players probably wouldn't enter that division unless the duncan one-way is ready...

[Dizzy]

You're absolutely right about the 1wb issue.

That's why I keep thinking about the idea of 3 divisions that I mentioned in an earlier post, fixed, bearing, and unlimited.

We do away with a combined title altogether and limit the first two divisions to tops that are production models only.  Anything goes in unlimited.

Originally, I proposed the idea of 3 divisions and a combined title but I've changed my mind there.  With no combined title the playing field is levelled as much as possible.
 
This way anyone can compete with any top they want.  There's something for everybody.  Having three divisions includes everyone, and since there's no combined title then nobody is penalized unduly for not having access to rare or expensive tops.  But the cool new stuff will ultimately make it onstage for competition too.

In the short term this idea could possibly thin out the number of competitors in each division a little (I'm not sure at all that it would but who knows), but in the long run I think it would help to generate overall interest and participation in the major events.

[kyo]

2010 was the first year in a while they didn't do a combined yo-yo division.  I saw some of it in 2009, and nobody was really paying attention.  But the sheer difference in number of players and clear separation of styles of play make comparing the two sports like comparing apples and oranges, at least to me anyway.

Even if the overall title were done away with, it doesn't alleviate the one way bearing problem... not many one way tops out there yet.  Maurizio is about to change that a little bit, but there are still issues, like the Duncan players probably wouldn't enter that division unless the duncan one-way is ready...

This isn't quite accurate.

The combined yoyo division was only created a few years ago (06). It was not held this year for a number of reasons.. one of which being nobody can seem to beat Shinji Saito.. but mostly because of a decline in interest (somewhat contributed to by point number 1). The original split in titles happened after the decline of the X division that started in 2000.. the 'other styles' got big enough to warrant their own divisions.

Also, anybody who wants a duncan one way should bug the heck out of all of the duncan guys.. seriously, do it.

Kyle

[Free]

so with all this one way talk it's got me wondering if someone has a link to buy 1 way bearings so I can try it out? Maybe the 10x5x4 size for the Duncans? I was unable to find anything helpful in a google search. I'd love to try a one way top.

[Neff]

One-Way bearings at Boca Bearings

Boca has some that are 10x4 but I don't think any would work.

2010 was the first year in a while they didn't do a combined yo-yo division.  I saw some of it in 2009, and nobody was really paying attention.  But the sheer difference in number of players and clear separation of styles of play make comparing the two sports like comparing apples and oranges, at least to me anyway.

Even if the overall title were done away with, it doesn't alleviate the one way bearing problem... not many one way tops out there yet.  Maurizio is about to change that a little bit, but there are still issues, like the Duncan players probably wouldn't enter that division unless the duncan one-way is ready...

This isn't quite accurate.

The combined yoyo division was only created a few years ago (06). It was not held this year for a number of reasons.. one of which being nobody can seem to beat Shinji Saito.. but mostly because of a decline in interest (somewhat contributed to by point number 1). The original split in titles happened after the decline of the X division that started in 2000.. the 'other styles' got big enough to warrant their own divisions.

Also, anybody who wants a duncan one way should bug the heck out of all of the duncan guys.. seriously, do it.

Kyle

What isn't accurate?  That nobody was watching combined in 2009 or that the Duncan guys won't have 1wb's in 2011?

[Neff]

You're absolutely right about the 1wb issue.

That's why I keep thinking about the idea of 3 divisions that I mentioned in an earlier post, fixed, bearing, and unlimited.

We do away with a combined title altogether and limit the first two divisions to tops that are production models only.  Anything goes in unlimited.

Originally, I proposed the idea of 3 divisions and a combined title but I've changed my mind there.  With no combined title the playing field is levelled as much as possible.
 
This way anyone can compete with any top they want.  There's something for everybody.  Having three divisions includes everyone, and since there's no combined title then nobody is penalized unduly for not having access to rare or expensive tops.  But the cool new stuff will ultimately make it onstage for competition too.

In the short term this idea could possibly thin out the number of competitors in each division a little (I'm not sure at all that it would but who knows), but in the long run I think it would help to generate overall interest and participation in the major events.

I like a lot of what you say here, and I think ultimately we are headed in that direction.  The field is so thin right now I thought it would make sense to simplify things.  I still think that, but it is sort of a step backwards if we know where we are going.  Hrm... thanks for your thoughts Dizzy.

[ta0]

I also like what your ideas Dizzy. Many of the options are contingent on the number of players we have. We already have decided for this year's Worlds (I need to bug them again so they post the rules) but we will change in the future if we find better options.