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Author Topic: new whip top  (Read 1898 times)

paulstewart

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new whip top
« on: February 04, 2024, 09:46:28 AM »

There's a new whip top in my shop, ready for a test spin. (pictured here w/o the tip)  The finished top measures 83cm x 64cm and weighs 27kg.  It's painted and ready to go, but no whips.  I'm about to go start a fire in the stove and make a couple whips, so I'll be ready for the first test this week.  This is a pull rope start that will take two people, one to hold and one to pull, then 2 people whipping is the plan. 


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ortwin

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2024, 10:55:15 AM »

... I'm about to go start a fire in the stove and make a couple whips, so I'll be ready for the first test this week.  This is a pull rope start that will take two people, one to hold and one to pull, then 2 people whipping is the plan.  ...


Very impressive!
Could you please explain to the non-experts how you prepare a couple of whips on the stove??





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paulstewart

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2024, 11:57:29 AM »

there's an invisible comma between stove and the whip part of the sentence.  The stove warms the room for the human to be comfortable, then the human makes the whips
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ortwin

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2024, 12:15:32 PM »

... The stove warms the room for the human to be comfortable, then the human makes the whips


Aaahhh! I see! That what the stove is for!

 
Thinking of the starting method with the rope, you do not only need two persons, you also need a lot of space. Maybe you want to give the "gravity starter" method a thought (that I show here). If you want I can describe how I think it could be adopted to your top.
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2024, 08:28:29 PM »

This is sounding exciting…….and exactly like something we would love to do at the Miamisburg Top Fest in August if we could somehow get you to come again!!!
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paulstewart

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2024, 07:49:42 AM »

This is an edited video of our first test spin.  We had it spinning for a number of minutes, not all shown on the video.  The rope pull felt good, the whips will get some changes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHClxU4EOUE&t=2s
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Jeremy McCreary

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2024, 08:48:00 AM »

This is an edited video of our first test spin.  We had it spinning for a number of minutes, not all shown on the video.  The rope pull felt good, the whips will get some changes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHClxU4EOUE&t=2s

Love the shape of this top — quite elegant.

But the video got me in trouble. Woke up at 0430 this morning and couldn't get back to sleep. Got up, left the bedroom, got out my phone, saw this post, and played the video.

Unbeknownst to me, my bedside radio was on in Bluetooth speaker mode, my phone had somehow connected for audio, and the whipping sounds woke up my wife, who first thought they were some intruder banging on the bedroom window.

Next thing I know, she's handing me the speaker with murder in her eyes. "Do something with this!!"

Trust me, you do NOT want to mess with my wife's sleep.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2024, 08:58:25 AM by Jeremy McCreary »
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paulstewart

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2024, 04:09:22 PM »

Tops really do offer all kinds of lessons to learn, eh Jeremy?   ;D ;D
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paulstewart

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2024, 10:00:43 PM »

Keith and I got together for our third practice with Octavia the Bottom Top.  We get consistent 110 (+-) second spin time with just a rope pull.  We practiced whipping and while our whip action seems pretty good, it does not improve spin time.  A couple changes will be made and hopefully the whipping will improve. 
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paulstewart

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2024, 08:50:13 AM »

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Mark Leithead

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2024, 06:44:00 PM »

Cool!
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ta0

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2024, 07:09:01 PM »

I love the colors of Octavia.

The torque provided by the whipping action is proportional to the radius. However, the moment of inertia increases with the radius squared. In particular, for a thin cylinder I = m r2
Therefore the angular acceleration from a whiplash decreases proportional to the mass and to the radius. In other words, big whip tops are difficult to keep going.

Looking at the video, my intuition tells me that the whiplashes are puny with respect to the top. The only solutions that occur to me are:
1 - Heavier/wider whip material
2 - A non-slip coating on the top
3 - More frequent whipping

About point 3, I suspect that shorter whips that can be swung more frequently, could be more effective. Tthey may also allow a third player to be whipping.
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johnm

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2024, 07:57:42 PM »

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QLI7-QZom0

Perhaps this video is an edit of several trials as the pull start suggest a counter-clockwise rotation as viewed from above while the whipping action suggests a clockwise intention for speed maintenance.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2024, 08:17:31 PM by ta0 »
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Jeremy McCreary

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2024, 08:14:22 PM »


Excellent! The paint patterns make for very interesting video effects, and the music's a perfect match to these effects and the whipping action as well.

Agree with ta0 about whipping frequency. The choreography's quite dramatic, but landing blows on every other swing of the arms seems inefficient from a momentum transfer standpoint. Is it possible to hit the top on every swing at least some of the time?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2024, 10:57:43 PM by Jeremy McCreary »
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ortwin

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2024, 08:17:24 PM »

...
Perhaps this video is an edit of several trials as the pull start suggest a counter-clockwise rotation as viewed from above while the whipping action suggests a clockwise intention for speed maintenance.


Well spotted! Now I can also see that.
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ta0

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2024, 08:27:30 PM »

...
Perhaps this video is an edit of several trials as the pull start suggest a counter-clockwise rotation as viewed from above while the whipping action suggests a clockwise intention for speed maintenance.

Ha!  ;D Good eye John! I didn't notice that the wrap is in the "wrong direction". But from the precession you can see that the spin while whipping is in the correct direction (and opposite to the start and the end of the video).
« Last Edit: March 17, 2024, 08:30:50 PM by ta0 »
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paulstewart

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2024, 09:01:24 PM »

I drew a small arrow on the bottom to remind me which way to wind the top, Keith and I both whip right handed, so the top spins in the same direction we are whipping.  If the top appears to be spinning opposite to the direction we whip, that has to do with the camera frame rate playing with the surface design.  Next time we practice there will be a clear grippy surface on the top where we strike the whips.  Thanks for the whipping suggestions, this makes sense and we'll play around with different techniques. 
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paulstewart

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2024, 09:09:47 AM »

the counter clock wise and clock wise rotation illusion is just that, an illusion created by the painted pattern and the frame rate of the camera.  we are whipping the top in the same direction as the spin.  there is another new top in the shop, a smaller cousin to Octavia.  I've yet to make a formal introduction since both Octavia and Presto have similar secret surprises that need to be further tested to get right.
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paulstewart

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Re: new whip top
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2024, 06:05:21 PM »

A minor failure with clear skateboard grip tape from amazon, it does not stick.  Next I'll try a silica designed to add grip to stair treads to provide surface grip for the whips.  Also making new whip ends, so hopefully spin times will improve.  I truly appreciate the support of people willing to buy my regular size spin tops to help fund the Big Top Experiments.  I know they are not high performance tops, but each is a handmade and colored, functional piece.  Without support, I can't keep on glueing up 139 pieces (Octavia) and spending a hundred plus hours making Big Tops.  Dorothy Dot is 152 pieces!  Big Tops 8 & 9 are complete and function, but they each have secret surprises that need to be worked out.  Meanwhile I'm planning Big Top #10 which should be something special.  I do want to continue these experiments and bring them to events but I need your help.  I'll be offering a small batch of fresh hand size tops and finger tops.  If my spin tops are not your cup of tea, but you still want to show your support, I've made 3" x 5" vinyl stickers for you to show your friends, neighbors and the world, that you like what goes on at the Round Top Top Shop.  I'll mail one to the lower 48 USA for a donation of $2 or more, contributing to the Big Tops is your vote that you want to see them.  If you've enjoyed seeing the Big Tops, playing with them, or hope to see them in the future, please consider helping out.  Over seas postage can get crazy, I'll get a quote from the post office and report back if there are inquiries.  I accept PayPal, paulsriver@hotmail.com   T-shirts may come next.  Thanks again for all the support and look forward to seeing ya'll soon.



« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 03:21:08 PM by paulstewart »
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