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Author Topic: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions  (Read 17150 times)

ortwin

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2022, 11:24:20 AM »

...
On those tricks it's important to synchronize the revolution around the center of the circle with the top's natural precession. 
....But if the top is already leaning too much, you can make it stand up by pulling with the string in the direction the tip is pointing. ...
Thank you ta0, all you write seems so clear and logical now! Actually really straight forward, like one balances and uprights the top on the palm.
I feel a bit stupid now for asking, but that is all right, I am used to it by now, it is not a new sensation to me. ::)
In the next session I will put the advice to practice. Thanks again for spelling out for me what should be obvious!



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ortwin

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2022, 02:44:11 PM »

Today I received the two "Short Circuit" tops plus a "Replacement and upgrade set" by yoyofactory that I ordered from Yoyoexpert.




One of the two I left a fixed tip top it came as, the other one I changed to a bearing tip top.The first time playing around with these tops feels very promising! I think with the fixed tip version it will be easier to learn the wirewalker than with the wooden top from Rocco or the tiny CUPER.
With the bearing version I managed for the first time a trapeze today.
 So that is all fine and good, but I also have to report the trouble I had with the replacement and upgrade set:the set was $ 10,- and I new that the metal tips included would not fit the "short circuit", only the "elec-trick" that I do not own. There was a plastic tip advertised that should work as bearing tip. Well, nobody said that you have to "bring your own bearing" and there was no kind of manual included with the set. I learned that only from a video I then found from Dazzling Dave! Luckily I had just the right bearing around from a yoyofactory yoyo.So all worked out well at the end of the day, but still I am "unhappy" with the packaging of that set, the communication of yoyofactory and Yoyoexpert! At the same time I am thankful to Dazzling Dave for posting that helpful video!
Thank you ta0 for suggesting the "short circuit", our floors will like the plastic tips!


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ta0

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2022, 01:27:21 PM »

Congratulations on your progress, specially your first trapeze. I recall when I first saw the description of the trick on the Spintastics trick sheet and thought the trick was impossible!  ;D

In defense of YYF, it's called a replacement tip, not a conversion kit, but you are right, they should explicity say that there is no bearing.
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ortwin

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2022, 02:23:35 PM »




Spin Top Upgrade Kit
   Regular price    $9.99
It says at their site: "Upgrade and maintain your YoYoFactory spin tops with this upgrade kit. Modify your Short Circuit to take a plastic bearing tip or upgrade your Elec-Trick to metal tips. (Metal tips not compatible with Short Circuit spin top)"
https://yoyofactory.com/products/spin-top-upgrade-kit
 Only the leftmost part was of use to me and I payed $ 10,- . It was still okayish for me this time, this is just meant as an information for others.
 
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ta0

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2022, 04:12:21 PM »




Spin Top Upgrade Kit
   Regular price    $9.99
It says at their site: "Upgrade and maintain your YoYoFactory spin tops with this upgrade kit. Modify your Short Circuit to take a plastic bearing tip or upgrade your Elec-Trick to metal tips. (Metal tips not compatible with Short Circuit spin top)"
https://yoyofactory.com/products/spin-top-upgrade-kit
My mistake. I'm out of town and I didn't check before posting. That description is deceiving.
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ortwin

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2022, 02:31:47 AM »



Well, that was a short lived fun with the bearing tip version of the "Short Circuit" !
 
It had a hard crash that broke off the two flaps that are supposed to hold the tip in the ball bearing!
Before that I was actually progressing well, I did a few decent gyroscopic flops and even a first "mach 5" with the short circuit. I was practicing to do a first "corkscrew" since that is the only remaining trick of my "goals for bearing top" list here that I never succeeded to do so far.

 It does not seem likely that I will soon have a bearing tip "Short Circuit" again because I could not find that tip anywhere by itself, only in the expensive set. Or does somebody  here have different information?
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jim in paris

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2022, 10:39:41 AM »

Dear Ortwin
breaking plastic tips or loosing tip and bearing are part of the players ' routine

I suggest you get a piece of carpet to protect the floor and go on playing in your flat with the blizzard
Next purchase : a strummolo8
and you're done with tops that break

Good day
I ll check my box of spares there could be a plastic tip for energia

Wieder sehen
Jim

 8) 8)
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ortwin

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2022, 02:44:38 PM »

It says at thei YYF site: "... (Metal tips not compatible with Short Circuit spin top)" 
 

Yeah not compatible, but it does not hurt to try I thought since the plastic bearing tip is broken now.


Hey, the green encircled parts made a nice bearing tip! Spins nice when turned by hand, perfect fit! Did they make another blunder in the description of their set?

So I wound that string around and gave it a try for a boomerang with very hopeful feelings!
Ha! I just  caught the first boomerang that came back low and fast. It felt very bumpy on the palm though.
Starting from the second try onward, I noticed that something strange was going on:
The top was upright when released from the string. But then it starts to flip! Sometimes it is totally inverted when it should actually land on my palm!
Very strange and surprising behavior, it reminds me of the "Tennis Racket Theorem" you discussed for example here. But I can't believe it is really related.
But for sure replacing the plastic tip with the metal tip, did change the ratio of the "transversal moment of inertia" to the "axial moment of inertia".
I do not understand it completely yet, I would have to think about it more in the "Spin Science" section of this forum.
But for this section my conclusion is: YYF is right, the metal tips are not compatible with Short Circuit spin top.
Might an additional brass weight ring help as the one in my spintastic blizzard?


 
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ta0

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #53 on: March 29, 2022, 04:13:32 PM »

Yes, the Short Circuit has almost equal transverse and longitudinal moments of inertia and the slight weight change of different types of tips can make it unstable. The effect of such a small change is pretty surprising. Here are some discussions:

Correct. Swapping the bearing tip for a fixed tip in an Elec-Trick or the reverse in a Short Circuit, will make them unstable. I discussed it a bit on my review of the Energia tops (link). Jack discussed it for the Short Circuit and showed a solution here: dont put a bearing in it!!!!!!!! and Jose here: Upgrading YYF Short Circuit.
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ortwin

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2022, 05:15:33 PM »

Thank you ta0 for the links to those discussions you had before my time.
You say:

...

...Jack discussed it for the Short Circuit and showed a solution here: dont put a bearing in it!!!!!!!! ...
Unfortunately I can't see the video that I suppose is showing the solution. It says "the video is private". I guess that could be a youtube problem that I can make Jack aware of in a private message, it seems some of the videos he posted here share the problem.
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ortwin

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2022, 03:05:28 PM »

Jack made those videos visible again, thanks again Jack!
They do not contain a solution though I think. They just show the behavior that my Short Circuit also displays with the metal tip and the plastic tip respectively.

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ta0

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2022, 11:09:36 PM »

The solution is to add a little more weight at the tip end, to make the principal axis different again, but in the other direction.  Can you add some washers?
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ortwin

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2022, 06:03:54 AM »

The solution is to add a little more weight at the tip end, to make the principal axis different again, but in the other direction.  ...
I had tried that by adding some putty inside in the tip region. The result was not impressive. Probably because the density of that stuff is too low. I did not buy that tungsten putty yet. So the contribution to the different principal axis was not so different because of the position where I could put it and the area it filled when I added enough to have substantial weight.
I also tried to add it to a place near the rim where it should increase the value of inertia of AMI - again no good result.
So I kind of gave up for now with the bearing version of the Short Circuit and practiced more towards the wirewalker with the fixed tip version.

.... Can you add some washers?

Thank you for insisting ta0 !
After reading your post this morning I gave it another try.This is what is now inside my "Short Circuit" (plus the C-type bearing that I did not get out for the photo) : 
 


So basically a lot of metal to increase TMI while not adding much AMI.
It does the trick!
The boomerang is coming now back to me in the correct orientation and with tolerable wobble. Not completely wobble free, probably because all that metal stuff is not well balanced, but I can land it without hurting myself.
Now I can see what I can do with the bearing tip Short Circuit, for now in the Cellar and once the snow is gone outside.
 

« Last Edit: April 01, 2022, 03:31:02 PM by ortwin »
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ortwin

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2022, 06:38:50 AM »

Progress: I was just able for the first time to perform the wirewalker !
Boomerang throwing and catching with the left hand, wirewalking to the right hand, balancing it there, jumping it back to the left hand and controlling it there.
The "Short Circuit" was the top I did it with.


 
That brings down the number of tricks on my "goal list" that I could never perform so far to three: corkscrew for the bearing top short circuit and some regeneration for a fixed tip top.
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ta0

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Re: Peg top progress log of ortwin and random questions
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2022, 08:07:36 PM »

Congrats on wirewalker! Once you dominate it, Short Circuit will be no problem.
Corkscrew may take some practice, but you will get it without doubt.
On the other hand, regeneration is another level of play. That's what separates the casual players with the serious players.
Good luck!
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