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Author Topic: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns  (Read 495 times)

Daveid

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questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« on: September 10, 2021, 06:06:51 PM »

what do we call the regen that's a bunch of repeating suns, seems like i remember it being called "bastones" is that Spanish for "canes" like maybe your spinning your cane by the handle or something?
and my real question is in regards to performing it, my understanding is that it's like the top is how it would be on the string for a drumbeat but your swinging it around as it precesses instead of pumping, releasing, and recatching... my question is can you do it from the sewing machine position? or rather has anyone? or does anyone? I've always wanted to learn that trick but my muscle memory is all set up for sewing machines or modified joker chokers, drumbeat always feels off to me and approaching this trick i lose interest when i have to get better at drumbeat.
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like I always say:dead monkeys don't fly on sticks.

Texture

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2021, 06:25:47 PM »

Hey David, it's called wheel of fortune. You can indeed do it from a sewing machine catch, and I personally like it more that way. Just there is a slightly higher chance of the top coming off the string. I think ta0 has a tutorial on the trick somewhere....
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ta0

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2021, 09:29:45 PM »

Eli prefers to do it from sewing machines and I prefer to do it from drumbeat. On the thread where we discussed my tutorial (link) I wrote: "Eli's version does have more of a tendency to escape the string, but it seems that if you move forward the left hand it is easier to do (while for the one I showed it is better to move the left hand towards you)."

This is my tutorial (with a big top for you  ;)):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGT-uUgmUvQ
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Daveid

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2021, 02:10:32 PM »

thanks guys, I wasn't sure what to search for if i had the naming wrong.
follow-up questions: when you get good at it, can you you do it with shorter string? or would shorter strings need slower moving tops? when i do the thing where i hold a top on one hand and pull it off swinging it around to land on the string (i call it "are you doobie keebler" personally but it probably has a name elsewhere already) if the top has slowed down a bit i adjust the amount of string to shorten the swing because the speed of precession has changed and I'm assuming this would work similarly.
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ta0

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2021, 02:52:07 PM »

Gus has a variation in which he starts to shorten the string while doing it, and ends up with pretty short one.

I would guess that a shorter string requires a faster precessing top. But perhaps you are correct, as the centripetal force would be larger. I'm not sure.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2021, 02:58:29 PM by ta0 »
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CUPER

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2021, 09:31:25 PM »

Una de las mejores técnicas que me tocó ver cuándo se inventó,y de paso aclarar que yo saqué la de acortar las cuerda asta quedar una rueda de la fortuna mini y también fui el primer en hacer la técnica tanto a los costados sin parar continuamente a un lado al frente y al otro costado saludos cordiales
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Eli Hickerson

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2021, 10:40:09 PM »

I like sewing machine suns because it's faster to get in and out of where as a drumbeat you have to wait for the extra turn at the bottom before you can start. It's also not possible to do shooting star from dumbeat suns.

thanks guys, I wasn't sure what to search for if i had the naming wrong.
follow-up questions: when you get good at it, can you you do it with shorter string? or would shorter strings need slower moving tops? when i do the thing where i hold a top on one hand and pull it off swinging it around to land on the string (i call it "are you doobie keebler" personally but it probably has a name elsewhere already) if the top has slowed down a bit i adjust the amount of string to shorten the swing because the speed of precession has changed and I'm assuming this would work similarly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQEE9VQHiB0

I'm playing with a 54" string and I shorten it down to 27" for this video, after this I was able to get another wrap and that made the string 21". The slower the top spins the faster it's going to flip at the bottom so you need it to be spinning pretty slow if you want to do short string suns or if you want to do regular suns more quickly.
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Daveid

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2021, 09:16:50 PM »


I'm playing with a 54" string and I shorten it down to 27" for this video, after this I was able to get another wrap and that made the string 21". The slower the top spins the faster it's going to flip at the bottom so you need it to be spinning pretty slow if you want to do short string suns or if you want to do regular suns more quickly.


thanks for the feedback, i hope i can find the patience to learn this, it would be another fun thing to practice while sitting
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 06:27:46 PM by ta0 »
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Daveid

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2021, 11:14:34 PM »

here's where im at with the hdpe 10in, i think I'll be able to slowly get my hands in closer together, my motions are too big as it is... my 5in hdpe did better overall but i felt like i was learning more with the 10in... ive been working up to what i thought the motions needed to be for a while and so the muscle memory is partially there... the feedback has been very helpful thanks guys!

https://youtu.be/A48B6UeGrMs
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Eli Hickerson

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2021, 12:08:13 AM »

The tip should be pointed away from you when it comes over the top of the arc. It looks to me like you’re doing orbits on vertical plane which kind of cool.
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Daveid

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2021, 06:59:49 AM »

The tip should be pointed away from you when it comes over the top of the arc. It looks to me like you’re doing orbits on vertical plane which kind of cool.

ah, that makes sense... i wonder if ive been doing suns backwards then.
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ta0

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2021, 08:57:05 AM »

Very nice!!!! I would say you got it! That was fast! Congratulations!

I have not seen it done before with the tip pointing towards you at the top. But I don't think it's fundamentally different, just the Daveid version!  :)

Now you need to go to smaller tops, and see if you like best Gus version or your version.

By the way, it took Gus one full year to develop this trick.
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Eli Hickerson

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2021, 05:53:29 PM »

Suns or “wheel of fortune” (personally I like the name suns for a single sun and continuous) is done with a twist in the string when the spintop comes over the arc. And by twist I mean that the string coming  from your right hand goes to the left of the tip and the string coming from your left hand goes to the right of the tip. The difference between a “sewing machine sun” and a “drum beat sun” is that during sewing machine suns, in the twist, the string coming from your left hand is in front of the string coming from your right hand. Whereas a drum beat sun, in the twist, the string coming from your right hand is in front of the string coming from your left hand.

The reason I say that what's being done in the video is a basically vertical orbits is because there is no twist in the string ever. In orbits the spintop rides the string and never twists because we bring it over the arms to prevent a twist in the string. The same thing is going on here, the top rides the bottom without a twist and then is brought over the top to prevent a twist. It is cool though

In my opinion this the best video to understanding how a sun works. Keep in mind he’s getting into it using a trapeze catch so this is “drum beat suns.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdJHoWf07k0
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ta0

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2021, 06:34:06 PM »

You are right, Eli, it's a different trick. I didn't realize that he lets the top go and re-catches it on the top. It reminds me more a rollercoster than orbits. Cool new trick and Daveid could name it.

Gus invented the trick and named it Rueda de la Fortuna = Wheel of Fortune. However, almost everybody in Mexico calls them bastones, which was the name for single suns over there.
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Daveid

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Re: questions about that one regen that's repeating suns
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2021, 08:07:19 PM »

this is so much fun, i had no idea i was doing suns backwards.

and it makes total sense that i havent been doing wheel of fortune, this feels familiar though, i think ive done this before like a decade ago and Chris Neff told me something about the tip pointing in the wrong direction ... now though im ever so much more interested in Eli's sewing maching form suns.

here's another video to clarify motion, when it works the top rides the underside of the string... when its successful it's pretty blissful... (if the quality of the video is low I think it's cuz it's fresh, right now it's showing my only option is 240p and i think when it gets done doin whatever, youtube usually has better quality a few hours after posting)

https://youtu.be/CNRUZw7OBhI
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 08:10:07 PM by Daveid »
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