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Author Topic: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string  (Read 9427 times)

Androx

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Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« on: December 01, 2020, 03:28:49 PM »

Hello everyone. I am Andres from SPAIN and I wanted to show you the spin top I have created. It's a top that works when you spin it and hit its axis. With it you can juggle or pass it from one person to another as long as you hit his axis and have some skill.
I hope you like it.
https://youtu.be/AjyLB8zXGo0
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ta0

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2020, 04:30:36 PM »

Wow!  :o  8) 8) 8)
Fantastic idea! Actually, I had worked in the past on a somewhat similar concept, but could not get a good working prototype. Congratulations!
I think you made things easier by making it the size of a diabolo and therefore slower.
It would be nice if you could tell us a little more about your story and the story of the invention (if you are the inventor).
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CUPER

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2020, 05:13:57 PM »

Hola Andrés soy cuper ya antes habías hablado ahora encontrarte en este foro es buena idea saludos
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Jeremy McCreary

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2020, 06:06:13 PM »

Hello everyone. I am Andres from SPAIN and I wanted to show you the spin top I have created.

Welcome, Andres! I'll take three. Excellent design!

Some interesting engineering trade-offs here. Did it take long to find a workable mass and mass distribution?
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Androx

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2020, 06:12:35 PM »


Hello Ta0, I answer you in the Spanish forum which is easier for me. My English is very basic and if not I have to use the translator haha.
Hello Cuper, I follow you on instagram. You don't stop traveling |
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Androx

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2020, 06:32:43 PM »

Hi Jeremy, sorry if I misunderstood the question. The distribution in Spain is done through https://www.amazon.es/ta-tack or Ta-tack.com for Europe. Outside of Europe I have not yet sent.
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Turegano

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2020, 09:54:01 PM »

esta  padrisimo    y  se  ve super  entretenido  pero  ya  no es  trompo   ya  es  un  ta  -tack  para ser trompo  tendria  que ser  enrollado por cuerda
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TROMPO MEXICO

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2020, 11:33:27 PM »

Intriguing!  Very interesting and very intriguing!!!  I look forward to trying one some day.
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Androx

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2020, 03:48:46 PM »

esta  padrisimo    y  se  ve super  entretenido  pero  ya  no es  trompo   ya  es  un  ta  -tack  para ser trompo  tendria  que ser  enrollado por cuerda
You're right, it's not a lifelong spinning top. But very similar tricks are done and the best thing is that you have a great time.
https://youtu.be/hfwiqwooD2o
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Jeremy McCreary

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2020, 05:10:23 PM »

Hi Jeremy, sorry if I misunderstood the question. The distribution in Spain is done through https://www.amazon.es/ta-tack or Ta-tack.com for Europe. Outside of Europe I have not yet sent.

Your English is way better than my Spanish. Beautiful country. Especially love Valencia and Alicante. Looking forward to US shipping.

Please pardon my asking this engineering question in English: Did you have to tune the combination of weight and maximum diameter very carefully to get good play value?

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Androx

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2020, 12:41:21 PM »

Yes, of course on the way I have encountered problems that had to be solved. Many models of different diameters, weights and materials.
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ta0

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2020, 12:58:37 PM »

This is patent (US 4,202,133) from May 1980 that had a similar goal but I doubt it worked. It's from Raphael Sahar of Tiberias, Israel.



The propeller on top is optional. The axle 11 is fixed to the top and would rotate it's body. From the description: "It is the object of the present invention to provide a spinning top which . . . spins automatically on hitting the ground (or any other surface) when dropped from above."
As you can see, it has a ball attached to an axle with a spring, and when pushed in engages some pinions and gears. It's not clear on the drawing, but there are ratched mechanisms (12) so the gears don't spin backwards when the axle extends out.
I doubt that the inventor ever built a prototype.  ::) There is no mention on the patent of the required friction between the ball and the bouncing surface without which the tip will just spin backwards and no net momentum would be generated.

There is a continuation patent (4,233,774) where the axle goes threw the body and just spins a propeller, which supposedly would be enough to make the top fly. The patent doesn't say it, but I guess the top would have to be spun by other means. :-\
Four years latter, the same inventor put a motor inside the top to rotate the propeller and the spring tip only serves as a switch to temporarily turn it on each time it hits the ground (US4,453,342).

I'm curious to see if the Ta-tack has a way of disengaging the axle (friction plate, ratchet, one-way bearing) for the back stroke or if just extends when it's in the air.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 01:03:23 PM by ta0 »
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Jeremy McCreary

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2020, 01:51:19 PM »

Mechanically, these regenerating boucing tops are basically upside-down plunge tops -- which also have to disengage their plungers on the return stroke. The few metal punge tops I've seen taken apart use this simple and cheap freewheel mechanism...

https://youtu.be/8qoH2Vm1HPU

From the videos, Androx may have used a different one-way clutch. Would love to get a better look.

@Androx: Any close-up photos to share?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 03:16:02 PM by Jeremy McCreary »
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ta0

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2020, 03:29:41 PM »

Mechanically, these regenerating bouncing tops are basically upside-down plunge tops
About ten years ago I actually built a first prototype using half of a plunge top with a wooden disk to give it more inertial, but the backing out of the plunge was too slow. On that plunge top the plate with the slot was flat and applied pressure on the body when the plunge was pulled in.

Getting that bouncing top concept to work is not easy: I know  ::)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 03:31:52 PM by ta0 »
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Androx

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Re: Ta-tack the new spin top that works without string
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2020, 04:31:15 PM »

This is patent (US 4,202,133) from May 1980 that had a similar goal but I doubt it worked. It's from Raphael Sahar of Tiberias, Israel.

The propeller on top is optional. The axle 11 is fixed to the top and would rotate it's body. From the description: "It is the object of the present invention to provide a spinning top which . . . spins automatically on hitting the ground (or any other surface) when dropped from above."
As you can see, it has a ball attached to an axle with a spring, and when pushed in engages some pinions and gears. It's not clear on the drawing, but there are ratched mechanisms (12) so the gears don't spin backwards when the axle extends out.
I doubt that the inventor ever built a prototype.  ::) There is no mention on the patent of the required friction between the ball and the bouncing surface without which the tip will just spin backwards and no net momentum would be generated.

There is a continuation patent (4,233,774) where the axle goes threw the body and just spins a propeller, which supposedly would be enough to make the top fly. The patent doesn't say it, but I guess the top would have to be spun by other means. :-\
Four years latter, the same inventor put a motor inside the top to rotate the propeller and the spring tip only serves as a switch to temporarily turn it on each time it hits the ground (US4,453,342).

I'm curious to see if the Ta-tack has a way of disengaging the axle (friction plate, ratchet, one-way bearing) for the back stroke or if just extends when it's in the air.
waou hadn't seen that patent. But it does not work. The hours I've spent making gears. The same propeller that has to drive has no force to make it turn and if you increase the size of the propeller it will stop due to its friction with the air.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 07:30:08 PM by ta0 »
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