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Author Topic: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019  (Read 20618 times)

ta0

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #90 on: August 20, 2019, 01:32:47 AM »

Has there ever been a situation like this before? Is this a first for the spintop community?
At Worlds 2007 I was announced as the second place during the awards ceremony. A few minutes after the ceremony ended, the judges told me there had been a mistake in adding the scores and I was really third. I exchanged awards with Takeshi.

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CUPER

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #91 on: August 20, 2019, 02:01:45 AM »

Hay 2 con 4 to.lugar deverias checar de una vez todos detalles Saludos..
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #92 on: August 20, 2019, 02:56:13 AM »

Gulp!!!  Four minutes???  Oh my!!!  Oh oh!!!

It is the middle of the night here.  I woke up from some crazy dreams.  Now I wonder, is this another bad dream?  I am pinching myself.  I think this is real life, but.....yes, this is incredible.

Good eyes, Taka.  I was there when Jorge was moved from second to third and Takeshi from 3rd to second.  It was done so quietly and so smoothly that many did not even notice.  Anyway, I need to try to go back to sleep......without any more nightmares!!!
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Happiness runs in a circular motion!!!

Jospin

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #93 on: August 20, 2019, 11:04:02 AM »

Jose play more than 4min for his freestyle?Is there any mistake by music person?or 4min is rule?Other player play just 3min,i think.

I do not want to make any argument for results,but did not realize until I saw video.
Woah, I didn't even notice... That's quite the shakeup.
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ta0

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #94 on: August 20, 2019, 12:32:25 PM »

I have sent PM's to both Eli and Jose in the name of the judges.
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ta0

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #95 on: August 20, 2019, 08:13:07 PM »

As you all know, there was an error from the technician in charge of the freestyle music that let Jose continue his routine for a full extra minute. Neither Jose, nor the judges or anybody else was aware of this and we only noticed the error when the videos came out a full week after the event. It is common for players to submit music longer than the 3 minutes and it's the responsibility of the "music man" to time the freestyle duration, so it wasn't Jose's fault. But neither was the fault of the other competitors whose shorter freestyles were at a substantial disadvantage.

The judges have looked at this in numerous different ways and in all of them the result makes Jose and Eli very, very close. In addition, discussions this past week about the freestyles and the judging criteria, on this forum and privately, would make re-scoring problematic as it wouldn't be the same as when done at the event. Lacking a sure-fire scientific way to declare a winner, we have decided that the fairest thing to do for everybody involved is to declare a tie. Both gave us a performance worthy of a world title and we are lucky to have them as players.
So let's congratulate the brand new 2019 World Spintop co-Champions, Jose Madrigal and Eli Hickerson!

Again, I want to apologize in the name of the judges and ITSA for this serious mess up that was painful for those involved. We'll try to do better in the future.
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #96 on: August 20, 2019, 09:16:17 PM »

Congratulations to the champs.  It has been quite a wild journey these past couple weeks and who could have imagined this finish.  Seems like this could be a great movie plot!!!
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Taka

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #97 on: August 21, 2019, 04:10:24 AM »

I still keep talking about Eli’s video issue.Hope we can see soon.
And if we need to change title for both Champions,let me know how to rewrite title for both.
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Taka from Tokyo

the Earl of Whirl

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #98 on: August 21, 2019, 08:02:53 AM »

By they way, that photo from 2007 that ta0 posted was a significant one for me.  I practiced for years and dreamed for a long time about attending worlds.  It was a thrill to be there and get fifth.  I could not wait to be in the group picture to hang it in my office to brag about it all.  Then Hamilton Yakota jumped in front of me at the last second to squeeze me out of the picture.  Actually, it is a fine shot of my left eye and ear!!!
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Mark Leithead

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #99 on: August 21, 2019, 09:22:34 AM »

Congrats to both winners Jose and Eli, Eli and Jose!! Wow!! I hope Jose is understanding. This is all very exciting. Eli I am looking very forward to (eventually) seeing your World Championship Routine.

We all did gain however by having 1-more minute of Jose's freestyle for us to watch, if I may say so.

In fact I was going to write a reply about my freestyle, more because it is what I feel I can comment on more freely LOL.

But first, that photo from 2007 is amazing. I see the 'usual suspects' + Dave Bazan, and Titifreak?! Manééééé. So awesome. Sorry he jumped in front of you Earl, we can see you are there!


-I miss Jose's two children.  They brought a lot of life to our lives in Cleveland and they are good top spinners, too! 


Agreed, me too!


I still am smiling about the accidental finding of the words "made in Canada" on a wooden yoyo and the pleasant look it brought Mark when I gave it to him.


Thanks for the collector piece, I did some research on the trademark of 'yo-yo' in Canada, and I cannot find any info past the Cheerios trial of 1965 in both USA and Canada, which was the turning point for 'yo-yo' to be a generic word for a generic toy. It apparently was also lifted in Canada, but I cannot find followup info now, and I know our return top companies in Canada are all 'return top' name-based (returntopshop.com which no longer exists, A-RT (A Return Top)). Also Cheerios apparently outsourced production to Sweden for these wooden 'ProYo Canada Games' in the 80s-90s, which is why it is stamped 'Sweden' and is not a bootleg model. Cool!


-Wilson reminded me, once again, about the power of our spinning activity.  As we looked through his cell phone pictures I was stunned with how his trompo opened so many doors.  From meeting famous athletes to getting better seats at sporting events to spinning scenes around his many journeys.....it was impressive.


Yeah that was really awesome and surprising.


-It is always fun to fall "on purpose" and see the reaction.  As I start to push 70 I notice that my fake falls are getting bigger reactions.  Thanks for the fun to all who were in the top room when I threw my little bike into a bunch of chairs and laid on the ground groaning.


Well, you got me, that's for sure... I don't think that room was quieter the whole contest. Is this a southcentral Ohio thing?? Reminds me of another southern Ohio person that films public intentional falls, pretty good at that too (Andy Schrock on youtube).

About my routine (spoiler alert)... I am now learning the importance of 'time' as has been discussed by Dale Oliver, Jorge Alcoz, Chris Neff, Team Cuper, etc. I spent 1 minute and 6 seconds of my freestyle getting new tops spinning, balancing them and getting them onto my string! That's over 1/3 of my freestyle taken up there, way too much time. Seems like a major advantage of fixed tip is to maximize time use and reduce redundancy in setup time. Now that the cat (freestyle) is out of the bag, I am starting to play more fixed-tip and will try to do so moving forward as well, as it is also a ton of fun.

About the ender, spin top players know my ender was not an NBD, and in fact it was done right in front of judges that have seen it before and used it before to win National and World Championships. My intention was to do the best performance I could do, and that included that trick, but after doing it I realized I was imitating champions instead of setting a new trend for one. Kind of hard to understand that before you reach that point. I'm also just glad that that big metal Spintastics top didn't go flying into the audience (or at the judges!), with that big metal tip. I would love to know what Dale said to Jorge when he leaned in to say a word to him after my freestyle  ???   :o

I'm still learning spin top rules, and I have learned a lot from the thread discussion on the topic, so I am glad the questions were posed. I especially learned a lot from Valerie Oliver's reply.


I was very happy with the show spintops provided. You all did great. Thanks a lot!


That means a lot to hear that from you Jorge. It was a true honour to say I was judged by you, Dale Oliver and Chris Neff. Saying otherwise would be a lie!
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 09:52:43 AM by MarkLeithead »
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Jospin

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #100 on: August 21, 2019, 09:46:19 AM »

Lacking a sure-fire scientific way to declare a winner, we have decided that the fairest thing to do for everybody involved is to declare a tie. Both gave us a performance worthy of a world title and we are lucky to have them as players.
So let's congratulate the brand new 2019 World Spintop co-Champions, Jose Madrigal and Eli Hickerson!

This is probably the best solution given the discussion about judging that has taken place and the complications of rescoring the routines.  Congratulations to you Eli and Jose! 
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ta0

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #101 on: August 21, 2019, 10:35:43 AM »

Thanks a lot for taking care of this Taka! Is the Japanese association behind the yoyo video archive?
I think the wording should be "01-tie" for both of them

Mark: I was going to comment on your "jump rope" finish after Eli's freestyle became available and I could give my impressions of all the freestyles.
I think you had the one of the best finishes of the whole group. But you are completely right about the time use: both Farid and you lost a lot of potential tricking time.

The Earl has been very restrained about describing Wilson adventure at the American-football game. ;) He got the lowest cost ticket to the game but through the use of tops and his smile he got a couple of invitations to better seating and ended up watching the second part of the game together with the relatives of the players, in a seat that cost more than 10 times what he paid for!

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CUPER

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #102 on: August 21, 2019, 08:48:41 PM »

Felicidades alos 2 campeones y bueno después metido creo an tomado decisión genial ,una pregunta como quedaran el segundo lugar  y 3 er después de esto es solo duda gracias...
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unklesteve

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #103 on: August 22, 2019, 12:20:52 PM »

Hey everyone -

Just wanted to address a few things about the way the World Spin Top Championships happened, and the issues that resulted.

First, it was not the fault of our production team that anyone's routine ran long. The music upload form actually lists the song length for each round/division, and out of 240+ yoyo competitors every single one of them uploaded the correct length music for each round/division. It may be customary for spin top competitors to upload whatever music they wish and expect the sound team to simply cut them off, but in yoyoing at this level the routines are choreographed to the second. This appears to be a disconnect between the level of play in spin tops and yoyos, as well as my expectations of competitors for both toys, so now seems like a great time to clarify and make sure that everyone is on the same page.

Moving forward, spin top competitors at the World YoYo Contest will be expected to upload edited music to the length of the round they are competing in, just like yoyo competitors.

Secondly, the day of the competition Jorge approached me asking for competitors to be added/removed and changes made to their music. In the moment it was easier for me to deal with this kindly and quickly, but we really can't absorb these kinds of things moving forward. This contest is entirely too large of a machine, with too many moving parts, for these kind of last minute changes. It puts a tremendous strain on our production team and compromises the quality and accuracy of the event. We're much more strict with yoyo players on this, and we're going to have to extend that to spin top players as well. I realize that there are always last minute issues with visas and international travel but it's FAR easier for us to refund someone who cannot attend than to add someone at the 11th hour.

Finally, we never received rules for the spin top competition that we could post on the contest website. This was as much my own oversight as anyone else's, and it led to several different problems. Neither myself nor any of my staff were able to accurately answer any questions about the spin top competition, but we were the first point of contact for anyone who had questions. The scores handed in didn't seem to reflect any particular scoring system we were aware of, and instead of being given a spreadsheet that we had assurances had been vetted and double checked for errors, we were given a single sheet of paper with handwritten scores, no explanation of what the scores were and how they were to be displayed, and we were given this mere minutes before we needed to format them and get them to our production team for display on the main screen.

I realize that spin tops are not as far along competition-wise as yoyos are, but if we're going to continue making room for it at the World level we're going to need to maintain some standards and make sure that the level of competition on stage reflects a World Championship level of play and that there are checks and safeguards in places to guarantee scoring accuracy and proper management of competitor registration, music, and scheduling.

Here's what we're going to need for 2020 Worlds:

- All competitors registered by the deadline.
- All competitors upload music correctly edited to the competition length.
- Approved ITSA rules to post on the contest website no later than January 1st, 2020.
- Explanation of Prelim / Final rounds, what is the scoring cut-off to make it to Finals.
- Electronic scoring spreadsheet for spin top competition (IYYF will work with ITSA to help create this)

I picked up another shadow box today and have ordered another 1st Place Spin Top patch. Will get that all handled ASAP.

Looking forward to working with everyone here to smooth out the the World Spin Top Contest and help bring it to the next level. :)

S

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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: Report from Worlds Cleveland 2019
« Reply #104 on: August 22, 2019, 01:05:08 PM »

Thank you for that information.  We will do what we can on our end to make everything even better.
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