iTopSpin

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Author Topic: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?  (Read 809 times)

the Earl of Whirl

  • ITSA
  • Olympus member
  • *
  • Posts: 5971
    • St. Jacob Lutheran with a tops page
Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« on: January 16, 2018, 09:52:24 AM »

This is definitely a NSTR related subject, unless we can find a picture of Napoleon spinning a top, as ta0 asked in a previous post.  It has been said that his soldiers played with yoyos, but so far no spin top connections have been found, that I know of.

I am into Napoleonic history because St. Jacob Lutheran church (where I serve) had a pastor who served in Napoleon's army.  Amazingly, he fought in the battle of Waterloo and survived to become a minister and settle in Miamisburg as the first pastor of my current congregation.  It is hard for me to imagine that I have a predecessor with these connections.

I have been reading a lot about this interesting man but I would like to know what others think about him.
Logged
Happiness runs in a circular motion!

ta0

  • Administrator
  • Olympus member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9747
    • www.ta0.com
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2018, 12:24:37 PM »

Well, perhaps not as NSTR as you think:



 ;)

You had seen this print by George Cruikshank: it's on Gould's book (but black and white).

From the British Museum description:

Quote
A (tricolour) top with the head of Napoleon spins, above the ground, savagely lashed by representatives of the Allies. His arms and his legs have already been severed from his body, now represented only by the madly spinning top. The most violently active is Blücher (left) stripped to the shirt, his coat and hat thrown on a drum on the extreme left, beside which lie his gloves and baton. Facing them is Wellington (right) equally effective, stern, but less savage. Full-face, and immediately behind the top is the Tsar, left hand on hip; his whip is inscribed 'Knout'. Between him and Wellington is Schwarzenberg (or Francis I). Bernadotte stands rather behind, between Blücher and Alexander, both hands on his hips; he holds a whip but is an amused spectator. Behind (right) the future King of Holland, crowned and wearing a star, but dressed in the breeches and jacket of the Dutchman in English caricature, sits under a tree on a cask of 'Hollands'. He watches delightedly, holding up one of Napoleon's legs inscribed 'United Netherlands'. The other leg, the thigh inscribed 'Swisslad, the boot Italy, lies near Blücher. At Wellington's feet is the right arm inscribed Spain & Portugal'; the left arm, inscribed 'Germany', is near Schwarzenberg. Napoleon's orb and (broken) sceptre lie near him, with some of the feathers from the large hat which is still on his head; his horrified and shrieking profile faces Blücher. In the background (left) is a road along which a carriage drives off, drawn by four galloping horses. It contains tiny figures: Marie Louise, crowned and looking behind her, and the little King of Rome also crowned and waving a sceptre. Two soldiers are on the box, two others sit behind. In the air behind Bernadotte a demon flies off to the left, with Joseph Bonaparte clutching his barbed tail. The latter, his crown flying off, looks back horrified, exclaiming "O! My poor Brother Nap oh oh! O!"
11 April 1814.
Hand-coloured etching.

If you visit the tomb of Napoleon in Paris, you'll know that he's still a national hero.
Logged

jim in paris

  • Demigod member
  • **********
  • Posts: 2800
  • "oeuvre de coeur prend tout un homme
    • my vids on  youtube
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2018, 12:51:06 PM »


If you visit the tomb of Napoleon in Paris, you'll know that he's still a national hero.


there is also a mausoleum " tombeau de l'empereur"  in Ajaccio
besides the military man N was a true visionary as head of state
he created the civil code known as "code napoleon" in which many articles are still in use today
(judiciary, appeal court,inheritance laws etc)
credit : created  la banque de france,
 education :created the baccalauréat
science : created the "école polytechnique" , the museum d'histoire naturelle and other institutions

IQ over 160

he has been blamed for his lack of compassion ,his insensitivity to other people's pain,for his asceticism and reluctance to profit from the pleasures of life (women,food etc)
the total death toll for napoleon wars is estimated at 950 000 
a man of contrasts who re-allowed slavery trade in 1802
at the end of his life during his detention on the Island of St Hélène ,he took a lot of books among which the ancient testament and the Koran

that's it Mike 8)

jim

ps and that's it Dave ;)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 12:31:49 AM by jim in paris »
Logged
"oeuvre de coeur prend tout un homme"

ta0

  • Administrator
  • Olympus member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9747
    • www.ta0.com
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2018, 01:54:35 PM »

the" tombeau de l'empereur" is in Ajaccio
I did not know about Bonaparte's family pantheon in Ajaccio. But Napoleon's coffin under the dome in Invalides in Paris is very impressive.
Ha, Napoleon was born in Corsica, so you probably have much more of Napoleon's genes than the average French (even if you are not a direct descendant).
The same way as Iacopo surely has more of Leonardo's blood than the average Italian.

By the way, genetics and statistics tells us that any person with European ancestry is descendant of Charlemagne (or any other European who has descendants and lived 600 years ago). Only that in some cases it may be very few genes. In your case, Jim, I suspect lots of genes from Napoleon, as it's a small island (but I guess not many of the genes for height :P )
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 12:42:45 AM by ta0 »
Logged

butterfingers

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 101
  • "Non-marketable skills are my specialty"
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2018, 04:17:21 PM »

Interesting tangent for a Tuesday afternoon. My limited knowledge of Napoloeon prevents me from commenting on him in any detail. It's easy to understand why he would be revered in Europe. To see him portrayed with a spin top in Tao's post is another example of how the spin top shows up in unexpected places.

Just as a general comment...this is a web site and forum about a toy. I come here (and to some other forums) to escape the incessant political noise of the world.


« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 06:11:38 AM by butterfingers »
Logged

ta0

  • Administrator
  • Olympus member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9747
    • www.ta0.com
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2018, 10:12:42 PM »

I understand your position Butterfingers. Jim almost hit the red line on my moderator alarm there.
I'm known to erase posts if I feel people could be turned away from the forum. Fortunately, the forum members are a very considerate bunch. I know we have people of all persuasions on the board: right and left of the political spectrum, very religious and atheists, gun lovers and pacifists, bearing-tip and fixed-tip players :P and I think it's wonderful that this toy brings us all together.
Logged

the Earl of Whirl

  • ITSA
  • Olympus member
  • *
  • Posts: 5971
    • St. Jacob Lutheran with a tops page
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2018, 10:38:38 PM »

I had no idea about Napoleon's IQ.  I will have to look into that some more.

I am still curious about how this German speaking pastor named Heincke (my predecessor) ended up in Napoleon's army.  I know he gathered people from all over to have these 130,000 soldiers (called Armee du Nord) that headed to Waterloo.  Yet, I would have guessed Heincke would more likely have been on the other side which was a coalition of people from (according to Wikipedia) Great Britain, Prussia, Netherlands, Hanover, Nassau and Brunswick.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 10:58:23 PM by the Earl of Whirl »
Logged

jim in paris

  • Demigod member
  • **********
  • Posts: 2800
  • "oeuvre de coeur prend tout un homme
    • my vids on  youtube
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2018, 12:33:18 AM »

Jim almost hit the red line on my moderator alarm there.

I have modified my previous post accordingly


cheers!
jim
Logged

butterfingers

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 101
  • "Non-marketable skills are my specialty"
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2018, 06:17:17 AM »

I also dialed my comments back.
Logged

the Earl of Whirl

  • ITSA
  • Olympus member
  • *
  • Posts: 5971
    • St. Jacob Lutheran with a tops page
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2018, 09:20:25 AM »

The places on the internet that talk about Napoleon's IQ place it at 145.  Not quite as high as 160 but still very intelligent.  The lists also have Albert Einstein at 160, Charles Dickens at 165, Michaelangelo at 177, Galileo at 182, Isaac Newton at 192, and Leonardo DaVinci at 220!!!

I also found a Napoleon quiz online that includes a question about his phobia.  The answer in the quiz says his phobia is Ailuraphobia - fear of cats!!!
Logged

the Earl of Whirl

  • ITSA
  • Olympus member
  • *
  • Posts: 5971
    • St. Jacob Lutheran with a tops page
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 09:06:07 AM »

To kind of bring this thread to a close, I am still shocked at all the loss of life that Napoleon was a part of.  He always seemed to be aggressive and kept looking for fights even when his closest advisors said "don't do it" (like his trek into Russia).  He was like a nightmare that would not go away until his death in 1821 (which is the same year our congregation was founded).

He pushed to be faster with his troops to surprise the enemy.  One way he kept things moving was by utilizing "Le Maraude", the technique of living off the land some would say but Wikipedia says it was "scavenging local villages and enemy population."  His armies must have been like a swarm of locusts when they went through causing all kinds of damage and destruction.

He had dozens of mistresses.  He took over a number of mansions and claimed them as his own.  He stole hundreds of pieces of art and put them in his living quarters, eventually making their way to the Louvre.  And, to top it all off, he was very good at spinning things to make himself look better.  His book written while in exile on the island of St. Helena is a good example of that.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 09:13:11 AM by the Earl of Whirl »
Logged

the Earl of Whirl

  • ITSA
  • Olympus member
  • *
  • Posts: 5971
    • St. Jacob Lutheran with a tops page
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2018, 09:21:27 AM »

Here is a good summary written by Victor Despontin on Quorum in response to "why do the French love Napoleon"....

This is a 3 layered cake.

First, French distinguished Bonaparte from Napeleon. Bonaparte is the general from the revolution and the republique that kicked the English out of Toulon, that restored peace within the country, stopping revolutionary unrest, made a victorious army out of the rags that was the army in Italy, fighting the Austrian like a Corporal in front line at Arcole bridge, who went to Egypt with scientists and made the world discover a new civilization. Without Bonaparte, Egyptology would not exist.

On the other hand, Napoleon is the emperor of the French. Layer 2 is the Napoleon who created France modern state and institutions. He gave France the Code Civil, essentially the codification of its laws in writing. Some have changed with the evolution of society, but many are still applicable. For what come to my mind at the moment, and just to give couple of other examples, several still famous colleges or institutions were created during his reign as well as the medal system to reward civil and military actions.

Last is the Napoleon conqueror of Europe. French are proud of the victories, the glory and the spread of revolutionary ideas across Europe. The French tend to omit anything that happen after 1812. Waterloo would not exist in France if it was not for ABBA and the British that love waving the name as soon as they can. Ask what the expressions c'est la Bérézina or c'est Trafalgar mean in French today. Most importantly, French prefer to forget the millions of dead, the loss of a generation that will make demography in France stops during the XIX century while the population of the rest of Europe will continue to grow and catch up with France.
Logged

jim in paris

  • Demigod member
  • **********
  • Posts: 2800
  • "oeuvre de coeur prend tout un homme
    • my vids on  youtube
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2018, 01:19:19 PM »

Simu Corsi , eppo chi c'è ?


jim (luciani)
Logged

the Earl of Whirl

  • ITSA
  • Olympus member
  • *
  • Posts: 5971
    • St. Jacob Lutheran with a tops page
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2018, 12:29:29 PM »

From what I can gather, this looks like Corsican.  I believe this is my first time to read this language.  Google translate has the second part of the phrase as "so what are you."  Are you saying something like "we are both Corsican, so what are you?"
Logged

jim in paris

  • Demigod member
  • **********
  • Posts: 2800
  • "oeuvre de coeur prend tout un homme
    • my vids on  youtube
Re: Was Napoleon a good guy or a bad guy?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2018, 01:20:14 PM »

exactly mike  ;D

it is an old saying
to me it means at the same time
 we are corsican , what can we do about it ,( it's a fact)
and also: is that so important to be corsican ?

to be honest I do not speak corsican , but I have a strong base in vocabulary thanks to my grand'ma and mother : I have recently listened to cassette tapes, recorded by me and my bro 30 years ago, with discussions about the ancestors and the story of the village...it's half in corsican and half in french , so one can follow ....

have a good day , Mike

jim

Logged