Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Beylon]

FIND IT ON KICKSTARTER TODAY
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/446060579/973425568?ref=1kp8il&token=4527c35a

Hi guys! Years of lurking and finally something to contribute! I'm working on a fighting top concept and heading toward a Kickstarter release in the next few weeks. You'll recognise the idea from other games (like Spinjaz, Spin Fighters and Beyblade) so you might treat this like the big-brother of modern top fighting:

How to play:

• Use the one on the left, called a power unit, to spin the one on the right, called a shell.
  
• Your opponent does the same.
• Last shell alive, wins.

The play gets strategic because you can field a "gang" of up to three fighting shells at once. You can program the behaviour of each shell by mixing and matching components between them. The strategy of the fight evolves as it passes through the different behaviours in your gang over a number of rounds. With so much detail (a modular base 12 system) and so many parts and combinations, there is a lot happening in each fight.

Anyway...

I'm hoping to get some feedback before I start producing too much campaign material. I'd like to provide material that you guys actually want and I do realise plenty of folk will just want spinning-top-porn without any need for the game itself. That is totally fine! Whatever you want, goes. That's why I'm here.

For the alloy-collectors out there, each shell is made entirely of stainless steel. The "gunmetal" finish is mechanically engraved into the surface (not painted on) as an homage to the cast-iron Meiji beigoma of Japan. It's just how the raw material looks, even though it's stainless and glassy-smooth. The kickstarter will probably begin with three shell designs like this and expand the range if we all reach the funding goal early - which will likely be around AU$9,000 to pay the bills. Christmas money time!

Initial thoughts?


Also, thanks to ta0 for letting me in! I've been using this forum quietly since about 2010, so it's nice to finally post something. You guys rock!

[the Earl of Whirl]

Wow!  That looks pretty serious.

Welcome to the forum!!!

[Beylon]

Thanks Earl! No injuries yet! Probably worth noting that the power unit is customisable and can spin shells both left and right - which is important for the shell in the above image. It can also be grasped in a variety of ways to suit personal preference. The final version will have knurls for grip along the edges and probably a rubber washer, instead of bamboo.

Here's a closer look at the composition of a typical shell - not the one above but the same general idea. You can see the traditional eight-sided beigoma influence as well as the more modern protrusions evolved from popular formats like Beyblade. Excuse the branding - you'd never re-find this on google without it.

All the parts are laser-cut to 0.01mm from 304 stainless steel and finished mechanically. The hardware is 316 stainless. The ball-shaped tip is welded 316 rather than cast, giving it a mirror finish and basically no error. Because of the fighting nature of the game, stainless is the most durable option for the tip.

This particular shell will easily fit in your palm (or pocket) and when used in its stock form with a power unit, will run for between 3 and 4 minutes with a 30cm string (longer with a longer string), bearing in mind that most rounds in a combat will only last up to about 30 seconds anyway. Not too bad for a top with such an aggressive design - and pretty much on par with most traditional beigoma.

The primary drawcard of fighting tops (for me) is how one must consider their interactions with other tops, as well as the environment and the players. There is a level of autonomous interactivity I haven't found in most other games, which I feel is really unique and appealing. I've tried to capitalise on this with the modular construction so that others might easily build their own fighting tops - something I struggled to do in early days.

[Jeremy McCreary]

Welcome, Beylon! To my knowledge, you're the 3rd forum member currently making modular tops from pre-fabricated parts. Luis makes his tops from salvaged metal parts (from computer drives, for example). And I make my tops and starters almost exclusively from LEGO.

You can program the behaviour of each shell by mixing and matching components between them.

I know exactly what you mean. Designing explicitly for behavior is a big part of top-making for me. The visuals are also very important, both at rest and at speed, and I like the look you're going for. As you well know, the rapid prototyping possible with modular construction makes it much easier to dial in the desired behavior and visual experience -- provided you have the parts.

To go beyond that, I'd have to see the power unit and some typical tops in action. How about a video?

[ta0]

I like the idea of a string ripcord instead of the plastic serrated strip: players should be able to put much more force without worrying about stripping the gears or getting them to lock up.

Very cool looking, by the way.

[dazzlingdave]

Looks interesting!

[Jatt]

SWEEET Have any videos of these in action?

[Beylon]

Hey! Thanks for the interest guys. As requested, I've managed to put some videos together with a new Youtube page, focussing mostly on the internal workings of the devices. Future videos will be more frequent and include actual fights.

How to load your power unit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOicoKrTWiw

How to modify your shell height:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0ODDKs9hKI

How to use your power unit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCA5vyCFbAA

How to modify your power unit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWGMA2_j2rM

How to modify your string:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9OfmSz5TY&t

Welcome, Beylon! To my knowledge, you're the 3rd forum member currently making modular tops from pre-fabricated parts. Luis makes his tops from salvaged metal parts (from computer drives, for example). And I make my tops and starters almost exclusively from LEGO.

Thanks Jeremy, your tops have always inspired me. In much the same way as Lego, Silver Shell is supposed to make designing a fighting top an enjoyable experience in itself - just like the original beigoma - which is something I feel other fighting top games often gloss over. I've personally had a lot of fun building these so far - like I'm some kind of Japanese clockmaker, with all the little parts coming together.

I like the idea of a string ripcord instead of the plastic serrated strip: players should be able to put much more force without worrying about stripping the gears or getting them to lock up.

Totally agree. The string in the picture is braided 80lb Spectra and has lasted a very long time - but the final version will be more like 100lb, just to be sure. The power unit setup is simple by design, using no gears. You can adjust the tension of the axel too, which can affect the way the string unwinds based on your preference, as well as tying the string to suit your preferred launch power.

More pics!

You'll understand I'm getting all the "pretty" videos done before grinding up my new prototypes. Ha! Here's another picture I've done in the mean time, introducing the "Dragon" shell and some visual styling. The shells need names, for the pledge-system on Kickstarter.

And I'm doing the social media thing too. So far I'm on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Some people like those platforms, I guess. Still getting up to speed though.

[ta0]

Did you hire a voice-over or is it your real voice? Sounds professional.

How hard is it on your fingers? I guess after some practice you know exactly when to let go.
Is the friction on the axle enough to stop the string from coiling backwards (if you let go at the end) and potentially making a big knot?

[Beylon]

Did you hire a voice-over or is it your real voice? Sounds professional.

Nah, it's just me. With my phone. If the kickstarter is successful, maybe I'll upgrade to a better setup?

How hard is it on your fingers? I guess after some practice you know exactly when to let go.
Is the friction on the axle enough to stop the string from coiling backwards (if you let go at the end) and potentially making a big knot?

Glad you asked! I've never noticed any finger-wear. After all this time, I can only assume it just doesn't happen. How you hold the "handle" is a matter of personal preference but it doesn't take long to find a comfortable stance for yourself - you don't typically release the handle during the launch. All the parts are finished with silky-smooth edges too, so there's no burrs or anything.

Ah, also, the feeder on the unit prevents knots if there's any overrun. Overrun really only happens if you've loaded your shell badly but in theory, the momentum of the launch can actually wind the whole string back onto the barrel (backwards) if you just let it go. It's pretty analogue that way. You'd then have to pull the string again and wind-up normally. Takes less than a second.

...More art!

This is the art for "Raptor" from the three initial shells that will be available in the Kickstarter. See the tools it comes with? I'm thinking I can unlock more shell designs exponentially if we reach the funding goal. So when you pledge, you pledge for a certain number of shells (typically 3 for a gang) and just choose the ones you want from the unlocked list at the end of the campaign. That means you have a full range of shell choices even if you pledge early. A new shell design for every $1,000 we all raise is probably pretty on target. Means the delivery date will be a little longer (about 2 months instead of 1, as we need time for people to return their KS-surveys with their selections) but I reckon that's worth it for a greater range of components, yeah? The final number of shells available would then be pretty much unlimited.

Thoughts on the "unlock" idea?

[Beylon]

OH MAN, the past week has been insane as I channel all my attention into building the Kickstarter page. Good news - the project was instantly accepted by Kickstarter, so now I can launch it whenever I want. Aiming to launch on the 22nd January - under a week to go!

If you want to stay up to date with the launch, I have a new facebook page which will trickle-feed you the details.

I also made another instructional video. This one is about balancing your shell - so you'll finally get to see some full-length spins! The master craftsmen among you will be squirming in your seats, I'm sure. Just remember: designed for fighting!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYlk3smARYY

[ta0]

Good luck with the Kickstarter campaign.

[Beylon]

Thanks ta0!!! Gonna need all the help I can get on this one, so if you've got any relatives or friends with only a mild curiosity in spinning tops, this might be the way to grab their attention for good. Under 48 hours until launch!

Here's a preview of what'll be available - straight from the actual Kickstarter page. Kickstarter doesn't let you "buy" multiples of a single object, so I've tried to design larger packages which people will want. Remember that backers choose the shells they want at the end of the campaign using the standard Kickstarter backer survey. That's important, because more designs will be unlocked as we gather more funds.

I think this is the first Kickstarter for a project like this. That's a real scary thought.

[Beylon]

Well guys, it's finally live on Kickstarter!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/446060579/973425568?ref=1kp8il&token=4527c35a

You know the drill, fellas - if you like the project, visit the Kickstarter page and pledge for one of rewards in the list. You don't need to sign up with any account. Otherwise, please, tell everyone you know this is happening. Your help here will make or break this project.

COSTS EXPLAINED:

I make about AU$2-3 profit on every shell to ensure the project is financially secure. I make basically nothing on the power units because I've kept the price low for Kickstarter. Most of the parts are made in Australia, which means fair contracts and no exploitation. Everyone gets paid for the work they do. Even me. The project completion time is between 1 and 2 months and this factors into how much I need to earn to survive to the deadline, based on minimum wage. The funding goal of around US$10,000 means I need to ship about 180 units (either shells or power units) by the end of the campaign - the number is inflated a little by shipping and fees, unfortunately.

Essentially 180 sales in 28 days. That's doable, right? You can also buy multiple units at once (3 shells and a power unit, for example) and this is what backers have already done in the first few hours. So the 180 figure could be a lot lower - and as low as 30 backers, if everyone is feeling lucky with their credit cards.


THANKS!

I'll keep you all updated - but if you pledge, you get the updates automatically. So if you can, please pledge to make this project succeed. Like any Kickstarter, all the parts need to come together. Kind of like this guy:

[ta0]

You really worked on that Kickstarter project! Everything looks very smooth and professional.

It's obvious that you put a lot of thought into the design of the tops.
Unfortunately, I think it's going to be difficult to achieve your goal. The price point is a problem: us$100 for a shell plus a starter (including shipping to the US), is substantial. I'm sure they are costly to make and you priced them accordingly. But the killer is that to battle you need at least two shells and two spinners. Furthermore, beyblade players are accustomed to having many tops.

Personally, I'm more interested in the starter than the shells. It looks like I could easily adapt it to other tops. But a starter by itself is not a pledge option.