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Author Topic: i may have a problem @-@  (Read 9916 times)

Neff

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2017, 12:48:05 AM »

well.......at least the extra length isnt bothering me  ;D

Well, I would not necessarily call that a regeneration run.  You obviously are doing a few regenerations but try a snap start and 10 joker chokers and tell me that string never gets in the way... do it!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 12:55:28 AM by Neff »
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Neff

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2017, 12:50:28 AM »

I seem to have a problem in the opposite direction.  Using a YYF Short Circuit and the string that comes with it, it  seems that I have best results with a string about 51"long.  I do best with a Duncan Bearing King (fixed tip) with a string of about the same length.  Any suggestions as to what I might change to increase my string length?  I too would like to experience longer spins with longer string.  Any advise would be appreciated.

Short Ciruit has a low aspect ratio and is on the light side so it needs a short string.  Only way to lengthen it is to use thinner string, which I have done for the Short Ciruit and it is much better that way IMO.  I would gladly send you one for a couple bucks.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 12:54:07 AM by Neff »
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Neff

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2017, 12:53:11 AM »

For a given top and a given string diameter, a longer string requires a softer throw and a harder pull back. This requires more skill as you must throw smoothly.
Mm, that is strange. I would have said the opposite: with a string that is too short you need to throw softer. But perhaps for a beginner you are right.
Kirk is right. Short fat string you can throw really, really hard, like a koma.  Long string if you tug too hard too early you will either get a rat's nest or a black eye.
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cecil

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2017, 02:20:51 AM »

I checked out one of my thin strings I made .080 x 139 inches. Works FANTASTIC. Now to look at snap start and 10 joker chokers?
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ta0

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2017, 01:17:21 PM »

Short fat string you can throw really, really hard, like a koma.  Long string if you tug too hard too early you will either get a rat's nest or a black eye.
All that's true. But, keeping the string thickness the same, I can throw harder with a string that is longer than with a string that is shorter.
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Kirk

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2017, 03:21:42 PM »

I have heard this many times: "longer string = more spin." But I don't know why that would be the case.
I think it's probably just a myth.  :-\
Gustavo Castro plays with a pretty short string. I doubt that anyone living or dead could beat his spin time. At the 2013 Worlds we all gathered around. Gustavo threw a boomerang.  Then after the (slow) count of 20 we all threw boomerangs. He soundly out spun us all!

For a given top and a given string diameter, a longer string requires a softer throw and a harder pull back. This requires more skill as you must throw smoothly.
Mm, that is strange. I would have said the opposite: with a string that is too short you need to throw softer. But perhaps for a beginner you are right.
Test this by throwing to the ground.  A lame throw with no pull back will not turn over.  Shorten the string and the same throw will yield a spinner. (Think of the skill level of the average 4 year old)  Now go back to "regular length: string. The lame (gentle) throw with a sharp pull back at the very, very end will give you a nice sleeper.  Oddly a harder throw with moderate pull back will also sleep well.  Those with experience are (without even realizing that they are) watching the top ride the string and adjusting the pull back to get the top to land vertically. 
Is it time to make a servo operated throwing arm to test this?
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Jeremy McCreary

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2017, 04:27:28 PM »

Fascinating observations, Kirk. The dynamics involved here are deliciously complex.

Tell me, how much do you think a typical top string stretches during a typical boomerang? Whatever the stretch per unit length for a given string, a longer one will lengthen more during both spool-out and pull-back. The stretch may not reduce the ultimate amplitude of the string tension spike at the onset of pull-back, but it will definitely widen it.

Could that be involved here? 

Is it time to make a servo operated throwing arm to test this?

It's always time for a servo operated throwing arm.
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Art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time ... and with spinning tops, we decorate both.
—after Jean-Michel Basquiat, 1960-1988

Everything in the world is strange and marvelous to well-open eyes.
—Jose Ortega y Gasset, 1883-1955

Jack

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2017, 02:24:11 PM »

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cecil

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2017, 02:40:03 PM »

So true Jack. I just love being outdoors throwing my tops on long line. I think every one knows I love the Colombian style. I would like to see some one in the U.S do the escalator on a four inch top with long line. When the top climbs from the foot to the hand is amazing to me.
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Jeremy McCreary

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2017, 03:51:52 PM »

And the best string length for any given spintop, is the string length that works for you personally

Absolutely. It's just fun to think about what goes on under the hood sometimes.
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Jack

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2017, 05:16:07 PM »

And the best string length for any given spintop, is the string length that works for you personally

Absolutely. It's just fun to think about what goes on under the hood sometimes.



by all means please continue  ;D
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 11:33:15 AM by ta0 »
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Neff

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2017, 12:20:19 AM »

To clarify when I say "throw harder" I mean the arm, not the top.  The speed of the throw and force of the yank with the arm, not how fast the top is spinning afterward. 

Short fat string you can throw really, really hard, like a koma.  Long string if you tug too hard too early you will either get a rat's nest or a black eye.
All that's true. But, keeping the string thickness the same, I can throw harder with a string that is longer than with a string that is shorter.
If your example is
1) a string that is the right size for a BK     and
2) a string that is too small for a bearing king
... yes.  With the correct size string you can both throw harder and spin faster.


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cecil

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2017, 05:49:52 PM »

I just did a double body cork screw with my Duncan  Ripcord. Made Spintastic  C tip to fit. Used Nefty string maker, used 3 point.

Lydia's ---  six number Tens. Thee Red and Three Black, wound tight. String is .060 diameter x 124  inches long. Try it, it's fun.

I want to order the parts to make another rig. I've beat mine up. Still working good.
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Jack

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2017, 10:11:53 AM »

You obviously are doing a few regenerations but try a snap start and 10 joker chokers and tell me that string never gets in the way... do it!

http://i.imgur.com/1QyOAeV.gif



« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 11:33:53 AM by ta0 »
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Neff

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Re: i may have a problem @-@
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2017, 11:59:45 PM »

As I said on the Instagrams, "Your string management skills are uncommonly good. To each their own of course but long string gets in the way for me. People learning get knotted up on drumbeats especially. We must be careful how we influence the next generation."
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