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Author Topic: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration  (Read 2992 times)

Aerobie

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Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« on: July 19, 2016, 06:09:23 PM »

Tops which can spin forever by rocking their base deserve a thread here.  The design and making of a top which permits rocking-base regeneration isn't terribly hard.

Topnosis is a commercial top which can be kept spinning indefinitely by rocking the base.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLyP6pE1XQw

Topnosis is mentioned a few times in this thread.
http://www.ta0.com/forum/index.php/topic,1005.0.html    Longest Spinning Top
But this thread is mainly about string regeneration.

I designed and made a 52 gram Delrin top (2" OD) just for rocking-base regeneration.  The tip is a 3/8" diameter Delrin shaft but the radius of curvature at the tip is 1/4".  I think a relatively blunt tip like this is essential.  I can keep this one going indefinitely on a concave mirror. 

Perhaps it's more interesting to keep a top going this way than to simply watch super long spins. Although I find the science and design of super long spin tops alluring, they are boring to spin.  I've made tops that spin over 30 minutes.  After launching a few long spins like that, my incentive to do more is pretty low.  But keeping it spinning by rocking the base might be more entertaining.

I started this thread to encourage discussion of this category of top.

Best,
Alan

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Jack

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2016, 06:13:09 PM »

Tops which can spin forever by rocking their base deserve a thread here.  The design and making of a top which permits rocking-base regeneration isn't terribly hard.

Topnosis is a commercial top which can be kept spinning indefinitely by rocking the base.

Topnosis is mentioned a few times in this thread.
http://www.ta0.com/forum/index.php/topic,1005.0.html    Longest Spinning Top
But this thread is mainly about string regeneration.

I designed and made a 52 gram Delrin top (2" OD) just for rocking-base regeneration.  The tip is a 3/8" diameter Delrin shaft but the radius of curvature at the tip is 1/4".  I think a relatively blunt tip like this is essential.  I can keep this one going indefinitely on a concave mirror. 

Perhaps it's more interesting to keep a top going this way than to simply watch super long spins. Although I find the science and design of super long spin tops alluring, they are boring to spin.  I've made tops that spin over 30 minutes.  After launching a few long spins like that, my incentive to do more is pretty low.  But keeping it spinning by rocking the base might be more entertaining.

I started this thread to encourage discussion of this category of top.

Best,
Alan

plate regens  ;)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 10:54:34 AM by ta0 »
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2016, 09:22:30 PM »

Yes, I have played around with an IKEA rounded plate and a metal lug cover.  Here are some quotes from that long thread about the longest spinning top.  Some of this pertains directly to what you are talking about.  I forgot that I went over three hours.....

"Right before nationals Mark Hayward visited the Hall of Fame and started playing around with a silver metal lug cover and regenerating it.  Several days later I tried some regeneration work with it and went 30 minutes.  I thought I could get some longer runs so I gave it a shot on my day off (today) but lost it at 38 minutes.  It still feels like there is something more there.  We will see!"
 
"Well, I just had a run of 52 minutes and lost it when I was playing around with different regeneration moves.  Someone with more patience and concentration could take this a lot farther.  I know we have talked about topnosis here before and I found an old thread.  Yet, here is something I don't think we have dealt with.....topnosis helping those with PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder).  It sounds fascinating to me.  http://healmyptsd.com/2011/09/ptsd-treatment-top-no-sis.html"

"I do not have a topnosis board (I see on their website where they spell it TOP-NO-SIS).  I feel like I am cheating by using an IKEA bowl and a metal lug nut cover.  This might be a good thing to do on International Top Spinning Day but I don't really have the time.  Rats!  Maybe next year?"

"Thanks to a TV series called "How the States Got Their Shapes" I am not bored out of my mind.  I watched several segments of that show while spinning the metal lug nut cover in an IKEA bowl.  What a great show.  It seems that I learn a lot every time I watch it.  I finally let the spinner stop whirling after 3 hours 3 minutes and 53 seconds.  The seven hour attempt is still out there with that whip top but I think it would take quite a few more good shows on the TV for me to consider that.  Besides, I was really starting to get kind of dizzy the last hour.  Time for some lunch and a good walk to get my body back on track."
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Jeremy McCreary

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2016, 11:43:55 PM »

What about making it a relay event, where one participant hands the plate off to another? That way, no need for IVs and catheters and the box set with all 6 seasons of Bay Watch to maintain bodily functions and sanity.
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Kirk

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2016, 09:20:49 AM »

Plate regens with the Ikea bowl and big whip tops in the Church basement are just 2 of the awesome reasons to attend the Whirled Top Festival in Miamisburg this August 27th!
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ta0

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2016, 11:05:51 AM »

Thanks for the video of Ed Rubin showing his (re-)invention.
We discussed it a little more on this thread: top-no-sis top

Yes, any interaction with the top is more interesting than just contemplating it after launch.
The main requirement is that the tip has a radius big enough: with the right tip almost any top can be regenarated this way.
Interestingly, tops can be regenerated tracing circles not only in the direction of the spin but also in the reverse direction: the top has to lean out and it is more difficult to do.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 11:09:08 AM by ta0 »
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2016, 12:18:47 PM »

I did find that interesting that I could go both directions with the regenerating!

Thanks for the plug, Kirk.  We may have to ban whips made of black materials.  They leave too many marks on the floor (some of which are still visible-which may bring some good and bad memories back for some people).
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Larry D.

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2016, 06:14:58 PM »

Thanks for the plug, Kirk.  We may have to ban whips made of black materials.  They leave too many marks on the floor (some of which are still visible-which may bring some good and bad memories back for some people).

Mike whip material is available in white, also in various thicknesses.....(I'm pretty sure you have a contact who can help with getting some.)
Here's the link:
https://world.taobao.com/item/18652330399.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a230r.1.14.363.lcDpiA
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2016, 09:32:50 PM »

Oddly enough, I have a lot of whip material in the color of grayish white.  It seems like it came from someone who's name rhymes with fairy (as in the top fairy)!!!
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Aerobie

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2016, 12:35:54 AM »

I sustained my 64g Delrin top with 5/8 steel ball for 32 minutes.  It spun at 600 to 750 RPM most of the time, but I took a couple of few-minute breaks, allowing it to decay to 500 RPM.  It's easy to rock it back to 700 after a break.
Alan
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Jack

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2016, 09:45:08 AM »

I sustained my 64g Delrin top with 5/8 steel ball for 32 minutes.  It spun at 600 to 750 RPM most of the time, but I took a couple of few-minute breaks, allowing it to decay to 500 RPM.  It's easy to rock it back to 700 after a break.
Alan

well thats impressive  :o
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2016, 10:05:03 AM »

Good job, Aerobie!!!
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Kirk

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2016, 08:16:32 AM »

I sustained my 64g Delrin top with 5/8 steel ball for 32 minutes.
Alan
Do I understand correctly that the tip is  5/8 diameter?
What surface did you use for the plate?
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Aerobie

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2016, 01:52:04 PM »

I sustained my 64g Delrin top with 5/8 steel ball for 32 minutes.
Alan
Do I understand correctly that the tip is  5/8 diameter?
Correct.
What surface did you use for the plate?
A concave mirror.
I've tried less slippery surfaces, but the mirror is best.
Alan
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Aerobie

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Re: Infinite Spin Duration by Rocking-Base Regeneration
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2016, 04:55:46 PM »

I've continued to experiment with tops sustained by rocking the base.  At the moment, the 64g with 5/8" steel ball is about as good as any, though I've matched it with a top which has a similar Delrin body and a 3/4" tungsten carbide ball.  The carbide density is about double that of steel.  This ball, which costs $27, weighs 54g, and the entire top weighs 101g.

Both of the above tops can be sustained indefinitely by rocking them about 25% of the time and resting the other 75%.  I like to rock for 20 to 30 seconds, then rest of 60 to 90 seconds and repeat.  I'm running in the range between about 500 and 650 RPM.

The topple speed for the 5/8" steel ball top is just under 310 RPM.  For the 3/4" carbide ball top, it topples very suddenly just under 270 RPM.  I think the sudden topple is a clue that it's very well ballanced -- which would be expected because the carbide ball is near perfect and comprises more than half of the mass.

Best,
Alan
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