Cost of worlds discussion (split topic)

[jim in paris]

NOTE FROM MODERATOR: split this topic from the Worlds at Cleveland preparation thread:
http://www.ta0.com/forum/index.php/topic,4293.0.html

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Hi All , Hello Jorge
thanx for the bad news

whether speaking as president of ITSA or as Jim the player
I find these entry fees to compete an absolute nonsense, a genuine rip off..//

from next year on , I hope we'll be strong enough to organize a world spintop contest
accessible to many, based on sharing and combining energies and skills to make it happen

besides, i'm on the edge of thinking that our efforts to raise money in order to help far-away players
will be like a teardrop in a salted sea .

sorry to be so bitter , but it really blows my mind that one should pay 115 bucks to play tops on a stage

all comments welcome
and i call for a meeting of the boards of directors and international board on that matter assap

T'Cho !

jim

PS : i will prepare a poll to try and find solutions

[ta0]

That's a lot of dough Shootist! But I am very happy that Austen has also registered.
What are the cancellation rules for the hotel?

Last year in Tokyo the yo-yo players paid:
Until April 30 – JPY 4000 (Approx. USD $35)
Until May 31 – JPY 7000 (Approx. USD $60)
Until June 30 – JPY 10000 (Approx. USD $85)
Until July 31 – JPY 13000 (Approx. USD $110)
At the event – JPY 20000 (Approx. USD $170)
Plus JPY 6000 ($50) per division.
While the spintop-only players paid JPY 3000 ($26) plus general admission JPY 2500 ($21) or a total of $47, with no deadlines.
It is ironic that Cleveland, OH is more expensive than Tokyo, Japan! I believe one reason is that the Japanese yo-yo association had been saving funds for their event while the event in Cleveland has to be self-funded. Of course, Tokyo set the bar very high for what is expected.

I wrote to Steve Brown yesterday, but I am still waiting for an answer.

[mailman]

I have no experience at all with these competitions, either yo-to or spin top. 

Given that, I am surprised that the competitors have to pay anything to compete.  It just seems....odd.

[Jack]

I have no experience at all with these competitions, either yo-to or spin top. 

Given that, I am surprised that the competitors have to pay anything to compete.  It just seems....odd.

i feel the same way, but then again someones gotta pay for it all 

[jim in paris]

well ok for the news
but still
:I finally made contact with Steve. At least I made sure that he knows that are willing to help with the organization of the spintop contest.

how about asking him for a 30$ fee instead of 50 $ to compete ?

i still think it's over too much!
the French association is on the same line
they are asking Steve B for a minor fee for international players
the european association will also make a move to ask for a reduced fee


we  (ITSA) can organize an alternative contest if the number of rich players who will accept to pay the high fees are not numerous enough (under 5)

so be it, we'll C what the wind does....

jim

[kyo]

If any of you whining about pricing want to drop -hundreds of thousands of dollars- to run a contest like this, feel free to do that and not charge anything to recover your costs.

Otherwise, shut up.

You are getting a world class event put on without any effort on your part. All you have to do is show up and pay a pretty reasonable fee considering how much most conventions in any industry cost.

Kyle

[the Earl of Whirl]

I am thrilled to have the money to go to this world championship convention in Cleveland.  15 years ago that was not the case so I did not attend a number of worlds that were held in Orlando.  2007 was my first one and I am still embarrassed to tell you all the things I did to make it "affordable" for me.

I believe it is OK to talk about money and costs and to remember there are many people in many different places on the financial scale.

I wish the convention organizers all the best in their efforts to pull this event together.  I also wish there was a way for all who want to attend to do so in one way or another.  Good luck to everyone!!!

[kyo]

I am thrilled to have the money to go to this world championship convention in Cleveland.  15 years ago that was not the case so I did not attend a number of worlds that were held in Orlando.  2007 was my first one and I am still embarrassed to tell you all the things I did to make it "affordable" for me.

I believe it is OK to talk about money and costs and to remember there are many people in many different places on the financial scale.

I wish the convention organizers all the best in their efforts to pull this event together.  I also wish there was a way for all who want to attend to do so in one way or another.  Good luck to everyone!!!

I absolutely understand not being able to afford it, I've certainly been there. There is a HUGE difference between being disappointed in not being able to afford it, and calling the fact that there is a fee ridiculous.

[ta0]

I don't have any inside information about the costs. The IYYF is a non-profit. I guess Steve would be a promoter who IYYF contracts (is the proposal he presented to IYYF confidential?).
Personally, I think it would be a mistake to try to match the Tokyo event, which was over the top (and I don't think it can be matched). Worlds in Prague in 2014 was a very fine contest, but much more affordable:
General competition fee:
20$ if you registered before the 30th of May
30$ if you registered before the 30th of June
40$ if you registered before the 3rd of August
100$ if you register on site
Plus $20 (tops, 2A) to $30 (1A, 5A) division fees

What really throws a wrench into ITSA's goals is the steep rise in cost as the contest gets closer. If we end up helping foreign players (e.g. Colombians) we won't likely know until June or later if they can come. Even US spintop players have traditionally signed at the last moment for freestyles (many times on-site) and I fear we will lose several because of this. Note that the first rise for Prague was June 1st, what makes a big difference. On the other hand, I think I know why this is the case. Steve probably needs the funds in advance to bootstrap the event as he cannot put the cash upfront.

From what I saw, all hotels in downtown Cleveland are expensive. Perhaps they have all upgraded now that the Republican convention will take place there 2 weeks before worlds. So the official hotel offer in not bad after all. If you are willing to stay at a place outside downtown, there are affordable options and public transportation seems to be ok.

Another unrelated thing. If we have more competitors than slots for the finals, we should have 2 or 3-minute freestyles for prelims, if at-all possible. I regret we only had 1-minute freestyles in Tokyo, as we could have easily had longer prelim freestyles. I will try to make this possible.

[kyo]

It's a good thing you don't get any say in what the contest will be then I guess. The yoyo community has spent 16 years trying to build a world class event and is making steady progress towards that goal.

The rising costs based on date has nothing to do with having cash upfront and everything to do with how hard it is to plan an event when you don't know how many people will compete. It's a nearly impossible thing to do well in the best of circumstances, doing it blindly just doesn't work.

Every world contest has used a similar system to prevent or at least curb the same problem. Lots of other contests do it too, again for the same reason. In recent years it has been increased more and more because thus far it hasn't always been a strong enough motivator.

"Even US spintop players have traditionally signed at the last moment for freestyles (many times on-site) and I fear we will lose several because of this"

That is -exactly- the point.

[ta0]

It's a good thing you don't get any say in what the contest will be then I guess. The yoyo community has spent 16 years trying to build a world class event and is making steady progress towards that goal.

I think the yo-yo brass is making a mistake. They are trying to model themselves after spectator sports where a few elite players compete and most people watch. That is not the essence of yo-yoing. I think it will be counterproductive in the long run. I miss the workshops at the Rosen. Where are the kids at these events? I bet the average age of competitors is increasing by close to 1 year per year.
For spintops a festival format sounds much more attractive.

[kyo]

Yea, sounds you also have no idea what the plan actually is either.

The Rosen attendance was flat if not declining.. the players hated it, there was zero audience, we couldn't attract non-yoyo sponsors.

I liked the convention aspects too, but the attendance for the workshops was steadily approaching zero.

This year there is a city wide school outreach program being organized, the city is dedicating a team of people to assisting with the event, local businesses are supporting it, and it will very likely be larger than any American contest hss ever been.

We are organizing a maker space to show people a variety of manufacturing techniques since we seem to have a new yoyo company every few weeks.

It's almost like there is an actual group of people doing actual things to grow the community.

[ta0]

Yea, sounds you also have no idea what the plan actually is either.

I really hope those plans are successful. After 3 years out of the US and first time outside Florida (or Hawaii) I would be surprised if it did not have more US participants than ever before. But my guess is that higher fees and earlier deadlines will decrease it from what it could have been. Total attendance is what the business care about. The city wide school promotion is nice, but you will have to be lucky to get 1 or 2 long term players out of it.
Anyway, I am doing my little part in promoting it 

[Jack]

We are organizing a maker space to show people a variety of manufacturing techniques since we seem to have a new yoyo company every few weeks.

not that its relevent but i thought that said "pace maker" for a second 

[Shootist]

If any of you whining about pricing want to drop -hundreds of thousands of dollars- to run a contest like this, feel free to do that and not charge anything to recover your costs.

Otherwise, shut up.

You are getting a world class event put on without any effort on your part. All you have to do is show up and pay a pretty reasonable fee considering how much most conventions in any industry cost.

Kyle

First off Kyle this is a spin top forum, made up of spin top players and enthusiasts talking about an upcoming spin top contest (Worlds 2016). The forum members talking about the prices for this contest are not "Whining". However, being told to "Shut Up" by you is disrespectful to the members of this forum. After reading all of your posts one would come to the conclusion that you Sir are Whining about how hard it is to organize this Worlds 2016 Contest. Shut the Hell Up and remember it's the contestants that make this event a success, for without the contestants you have no contest.