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Author Topic: what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?  (Read 4172 times)

the Earl of Whirl

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what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?
« on: November 25, 2009, 09:59:14 AM »

Some people may have some extra time around Thanksgiving and Christmas to practice.  That's why I would like to talk about what they would need to be able to do before they can freestyle at worlds.

If someone can do five rollercoasters, five drumbeats, corkscrew, wirewalker, some merry-go-rounds and figure eights would they be able to freestyle?  Do they need to be able to do more?  Can they get by with less?
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Neff

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Re: what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2009, 11:03:10 AM »

I say whoever wants to freestyle should freestyle.  My advice would be to watch recent worlds and national videos, and if a player feels comfortable being on the same stage as the usual suspects, go for it.  If too many people sign up, a 1 minute qualifier round can weed it down.
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2009, 06:15:35 PM »

Wouldn't it be great to have too many people sign up?  In other divisions people seem excited to say they were in the top 15.......or they finished in the top ten............or they made the finals.

How many points would one get if they did 5 rollercoasters, 5 drumbeats, one corkscrew, a wirewalker, 3 merry-go-rounds and 3 figure eights?  Would that be 18 points.........one point a trick?

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ta0

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Re: what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2009, 09:59:46 PM »

It would be great to have lots of people signing up. At least in 04 and 05 not everybody could freestyle (there were 5 spots.) In 07 we had 7 people freestyling, which was more than the 3A finals (6) and not far from the 2A finals (10). If the stars line up right we may have a good crowd next (calendar) year (I know Mike that you go by the spintop calendar, so that would be this year  :P) I am counting on Takeshi, Darren, Felix, John B, and yourself for a very good core of players. Hopefully add to that Boyd, Tom, yophosis and a few more.

My guess is that your Shreiber players will not be ready to freestyle but, who knows, they have the fearlessness of their age . . .
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 10:01:43 PM by ta0 »
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2009, 10:20:18 PM »

Thanks for responding to this post.  You bring up good points about spin top progress compared to 3A and 2A finals.  Yes, we have more possibilities.  I think we looked pretty good the last several years but things didn't work out.  I would like to talk about freestyling some more so we are sure to have plenty of people who aren't afraid to give it a go and enjoy it.

Yes, who knows about the younger set.  The greatest improvement in history (and it will be hard to beat) was pointed out to me by our very own Matt Ritter.  He got one point in the top ladder one year and the next he won the world championship.  Practice does amazing things and I would like to encourage our younger set to practice and not just think hope progress happens while one sleeps or by accident.  I think breaking down and demystifying the freestyle process will open the doors for more players to give it a go.

So, back to my last question..........how many points would one get if they did 5 rollercoasters, 5 drumbeats, one corkscrew, a wirewalker, 3 merry-go-rounds and 3 figure eights?  Is that 18 points at one point a trick?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 10:22:21 PM by Mike Hout »
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Neff

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Re: what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2009, 01:03:16 AM »

So, back to my last question..........how many points would one get if they did 5 rollercoasters, 5 drumbeats, one corkscrew, a wirewalker, 3 merry-go-rounds and 3 figure eights?  Is that 18 points at one point a trick?
I've been wondering how spin top freestyles are scored also.  I've done my fair share of yo-yo freestyle judging (the majority of it last millennium) but there are some differences - especially for fixed tip play.  For discussion's sake, I'd give 11.  In the order of tricks above; 3, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1.  Wirewalker is a one point trick, corkscrew a little more difficult, and merry-go-round and crazy 8 should be 3 reps to count as a trick, IMO.    I'm struggling with how I would score regens like rollercoaster.  I think scoring should discourage excessive repetition, like somebody doing 30 sewing machines.  Repetition is an inherent part of compulsories and record setting, but on stage variety is paramount.  I'm not suggesting negative points, just no points beyond a certain amount for any given trick.   I'll start the bidding at 3.  A player would get one point per rep of any given trick up to 3, the first time it is done.  Players would then still get points for using the same trick in other combos, just not in succession to itself.  I don't expect anyone to agree with this, necessarily, just wanted to get the thought out there.
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2009, 12:46:27 PM »

Thanks for your reply, yophosis.  This gives me some things to think about....and hopefully some things for others to think about.  I have no judging background and know very little about the system.  I'm interested in what others have to say about this.
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SpinQueen

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Re: what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2009, 01:31:09 PM »

What does someone have to do before they can freestyle?

Get up the nerve?

Have the gall?

Grow some balls?
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ta0

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Re: what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2009, 02:11:15 PM »

In previous contests the rule was that the same trick could count up to 3 times, unless it was a regen trick and then it could count up to 5 times. And tricks done after a regeneration got bonus points. But those rules were first written when there was a single combined division and very few people could regenerate much. At worlds I did 5 repetitions of several regens (polar satellites, half barrel rolls, magnetic wire, etc) because those were the rules.

Now that there are separate divisions for fixed tip and bearing tip we probably need to change it so no matter the trick it can only count 3 times.  A limit of 3 will give more variety to the fixed tip freestyle. However, I suspect some may struggle to find enough different tricks to do.

I would agree with yophosis that 3 MGR or 3 crazy-8 count as 1 trick, at least with bearing tops. I would give a wirewalker the same points as a corkscrew done with a bearing tip (you would be surprised, Chris, how many people find wirewalker much more difficult than corkscrew.)

In your example, Mike, you have a wirewalker so it has to be the fixed tip division. Then the corkscrew becomes a more difficult trick.

The points are normalized to 100 so it is not important what are the absolute points per trick but their relative weight.

I noticed that Chris did not say anything about not freestyling at Worlds, so I will include him on the list of likely competitors  ;D

Queen, you have enough chutzpah plus skill; that should be enough  ;)
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2009, 11:24:58 AM »

It is good to see spinningray back on the board with his good top tips.  I'm wondering what he has to say about what someone has to do before they can freestyle.
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Dick Stohr

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Re: what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2009, 10:52:44 PM »

what someone has to do before they can freestyle.
Mike, there is nothing that someone must do to qualify to freestyle.  Beyond the rules that limit scoring it is do the most completed tricks.  Doing a trick over and over will not score.  Starting or finishing a trick in a different way will score that trick again, but for a limited number of times.  As Ta0 has pointed out the exact score in not important.  Scoring the most points on each judges ranking is what makes a winner.  All others are ranked in order of ranked scores.  So do the most completed tricks with a lot of variety and you will do well in the scoring.  The most important thing is to enjoy doing a good show, show your skills, impress the folks watching.
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Spinningray

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Re: what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2009, 11:57:52 PM »

Before someone can freestyle, they must want to freestyle. I know of several players that have the skill to freestyle, but don't like to perform in front of a crowd. You should be able to demonstrate that you can perform a freestyle routine appropriate for the given audience. We hope to have players inspire others to take up the sport. You should be having fun. It has been difficult to get enough players to freestyle the last few years.
I hope someday we will have so many people wanting to freestyle that will will need to implement the 1 minute freestyle to determine the players who will freestyle in the championship.
As far as the scoring for the list of tricks you asked about. It would depend upon the number of throws to complete them. I would probably give 14 clicks if there was a throw between each trick. I might give 20 or more clicks if they were all done from one throw. I look for moves where the top leaves the string or is very risky. The more difficult the trick, the more clicks you will get. More variety will ensure more clicks.
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: what does someone have to do before they can freestyle?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2009, 09:41:58 AM »

Thanks for the input, Dick and Spinningray.  I think we have some people improving and getting ready to freestyle.  The more they know about what they need to do, the more inspired they will be (in my humble opinion).

Anyway, I think this is a good way to end this thread so others can learn from it and refer back to it.
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