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[Taka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbgrIsPHjZg



Article about this Koma(written in Japanese)
https://chonkakegoma.tumblr.com/post/669158485803646976/hybrid

Try to find better shape for regen with Koma.Koma is small and light,not good for regen.
Make between throw top(koma) and Chonkakegoma.

[ta0]

I just read your blog (thanks to Google translate). You have very interesting thoughts. In fact, I have been thinking along similar lines since the world contest. There must be something between a koma/chonkake/spintop that combines the best characteristics of them.

Being able to do continuous routines with one top is better than throwing a lot of tops. This is not just a problem with koma play but also with the Colombian trompo play. So I think both styles will evolve into more regeneration play. In fact, spintop routines evolved the same way: even the best players used to throw a lot of tops (e.g. Matt Ritter with bearing tops). As you say, traditional komas have a shaft that is too thin and a string that is too thick. Your new hybrid Chonkakegoma/Koma is a good step in the direction of regenerating Japanese trick tops.

One thing you don't discuss is the precession speed. For some spintop tricks the chonkakegoma shape is too "slow": it takes too long to change the direction the tip is pointing. This is because the center of mass is quite close to where the shaft meets the body. One possibility would be to make a tip with two grooves/necks: one closer to the body for regular chonkakegoma play and one further for fast precession and correction of the orientation of the top.

[Taka]

I just read your blog (thanks to Google translate). You have very interesting thoughts. In fact, I have been thinking along similar lines since the world contest. There must be something between a koma/chonkake/spintop that combines the best characteristics of them.

One thing you don't discuss is the precession speed. For some spintop tricks the chonkakegoma shape is too "slow": it takes too long to change the direction the tip is pointing. This is because the center of mass is quite close to where the shaft meets the body. One possibility would be to make a tip with two grooves/necks: one closer to the body for regular chonkakegoma play and one further for fast precession and correction of the orientation of the top.

Thanks for your comments.In my opinion,Player think they want to show off their skill and need fair scoring not depends on props.
As I mentioned in my Blog,I had fun to join "Festival",in my personal, do not care about score.But for young player, they want to know the rule and how to score,besides,think about how to compete with other countries.
so this is not argument but just one approach to how to set up fair rule.I have fun this approch,too.So my hobby is think about rule and make new tops to follow/against rule.

I did not mention about precession speed in that article.I made heavy axle before.it is not like diabolo weight distribution but very very slow precession because of both side has enough weight.in total 400g,100g more is axle.

https://chonkakegoma.tumblr.com/post/625597973310685184/long

Some of Japanese chonkake group also think about how to control precession speed.Slow is better for beginner they think, so they try to find slow precession top for beginner.

In the past, top is 1 shape, then spread out all over the world, and few thousands later, each country has different shape, style.
Now we start communicate by internet, each community change their style step by step. koma import many tricks from Spintop/Trompo, diabolo.
Huge improvement but same time, We are losing our originality same as other culture, like language, music ,food,movies.

I want to see The One Form of Top as the Final Form of Cultural fusion,"universal top" in some day, but also want to keep Japanese top character as identity.
I believe that the low center of gravity and flat shape of the top is the character of Japanese Koma.So slow precession also one of the character.
Can not be fast,and need follow top.We do not control chonkake but follow them.More like oriental culture.When i see masters of Choncake,they do not use waite of power but more like martial arts masters.Just flow move.

[johnm]

To add to your brainstorming effort, I’ve not thought about this from the point of view of a competition enhancement but rather from the point of view of a player that relies on the crutch of a string groove in the tip to allow uncoordinated sloppy play.  I’m regularly frustrated when I try to play a typical straight shanked koma because every motion needs to be very precise, or it simply releases from the string.  I’ve learned tops by playing the typical western shaped style, and the tops I make generally have a deep groove in the tip making it hard for the top to escape and even allowing for up-side-down play.  Any excessive lean to a koma causes me to drop.  To allow me to enjoy the different mass distribution of a koma compared to a western shape, I added a cheater groove to the stem.  This had an unplanned benefit of improving the consistency of my wind for throws, but also achieved my goal of allowing me to keep it on the string for extended play.  The chonkake goma type regeneration is quite satisfying as are joker-choker type techniques, so starting from a snap, wrist twist, or single wrap drop is easy.  Since I’ve only had this for two days there has not been much practice, but I have experienced problems with tricks when the top is more vertical than horizontal while suspended far below my hands.  The large diameter of the body rather near the string position generally allows them to interfere so tricks like orbits need to be restricted to small vertical shifts in position.  As ta0 mentions, the slow precession complicates some tricks, but it might be possible to compensate in some cases with more body motion—which is a notable feature for the chonkake style anyway.





This version is an assembly of three pieces.  The groove piece is heated and “shrink-fit” to the shaft.  The tip assembly is a press fit into the HDPE body.  The body angle is reproduced after the groove to allow a similar geometry for traditional tricks like the finger grind and lower friction slides down an inclined string.  The diameter of the body is 4 5/8 inches (117 mm), the axel is about 4 inches (102 mm), the body angle is 120 degrees inclusive, and the total weight is 186 grams.  The groove piece shortens the length of the delicate narrow stem (3/16 inch diameter = 4.7mm) but bending the stem is still a concern during a drop.  I play with the string I use for a 3 inch top and the string I use for a 4 inch top.

[ta0]

Great minds think alike! 

I agree Taka, not everything is competition and we should keep the different traditional styles and enjoy them. At the same time, the pursue of an "international fusion" top is also worthwhile.

I like your "cheater groove", John. I would add a second grove along the shaft, for faster precession and also to further decrease the chance of losing the top.
Yes, the wide body of the top close to the grove requires a large angle between the shaft and the string and is a limitation of this shape.

[the Earl of Whirl]

Lots of good stuff to think about here.  I want to reread this again!