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Author Topic: Judging Competitions  (Read 1822 times)

Gustin Joss

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Judging Competitions
« on: March 15, 2013, 05:26:18 PM »

The latest competition videos from EYYC cause me to wonder how the performances are judged?

I have asked this before and have not gotten a straight answer. Some people think that no drops, with a clean, conservative run is better than a lot of drops with a couple of very technical tricks landed. Other people disagree. Presumably the judges do not agree as often, either. For example, based on the results, one of the judges awarded Mark Hayward first at last year's worlds.

As a new competitor, who is trying to get better, is it unreasonable to ask for a freestyle rubric, or for there to be a standardized approach to judging? Right now there is far too much subjectivity. I provide my students with a grading rubric for essay tests to minimize subjectivity. That is more than we get as competitors. We only get vague rules that, as it turns out, aren't consistently enforced because the ones who break them "would have won anyway." These types of post-hoc justifications cause those who follow the written rules to feel jaded and unhappy.

Is there any way that the top enthusiasts who "sit at the table" can get together via email and actually write some freestyle competition rules? Ones that will be enforced and that award specific values to different aspects of the routine.

As it stands, I can't design and practice a routine in preparation for Worlds because I don't know what a winning routine looks like. I hope we can come up with something that adds credibility to the competitions for those who choose to compete.

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ta0

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Re: Judging Competitions
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 06:48:06 PM »

Justin, I am very happy you are thinking in competing again and I would like to do everything possible to encourage you.

We made a mistake last year at nats in changing the non-retrieval rule (of tops that went out of bounds) after you and poptop had freestyled.  It would have been the right call given the circumstances (very small stage at ground level and few competitors) but should have been done before your freestyle.  I don't believe you ran out of tops, but I understand that not all tops are equal.  We did get the ok from poptop, but we should have gotten yours too.  So, I would like to apologize in the name of the judges. 

The scoring of spintop freestyles will always be somewhat subjective.  The difficulty part of score is subjective because it depends on how familiar the judge is with the move.  The only way of having something very objective would be to get the players to submit the detail list of tricks they are planning to perform, pre-score the routine and subtract from that score.  If the players do not like the pre-score, they can change the routine to start higher. New tricks would have to be submitted well in advance for the judges to have the opportunity to evaluate (try ::) ) them.  But at this stage of the sport it would not be practical.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 07:37:55 PM by ta0 »
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Neff

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Re: Judging Competitions
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 08:55:32 PM »

I am very, very biased on this subject so I apologize in advance if I am too course.  I have judged many yo-yo freestyles for hours and hours at a time, and I have been in many discussions on the topic with other judges.  The issues and the scoring guidelines are extremely similar to what they are in spin top freestyles.  It is no fun to judge.  It is difficult, tedious work to ensure that you are focused on the player and don't miss anything.   I don't think I would ever judge again if I had to learn a "correct" way to judge, and I think it would be hard to find judges if such regulations were in place.

The only way to eliminate subjectivity is to train all the judges endlessly until they all score the same, essentially becoming electronic robot judges.  I insist that there is plenty of room for subjectivity in judging, that in fact that is what it is all about.  As long as the judges are consistent to themselves from player to player, all is fair.  Furthermore, if there were a "correct" way of scoring, any derivation by any judge would be heavily scrutinized.  So again, why have humans judge?  And if we did have robots judge, would contestants even smile anymore?  Move around on stage?  Connect with a person in the audience?  My point is, it's not all about the points.  The burden is on the performer to perform, and the judges results are final.

Scoring is always based on familiar criteria:  Performance, Difficulty, Accuracy, and Performance.  Yes I said performance twice.  Stage presence is so important.  Focus on these aspects and design the best routine you can with the tricks you know.  Work transitions that flow.  Eliminate any trick from your routine that you can't land 75% of the time, except for maybe ONE high risk trick.  Also figure out a way to not care whether you win or not.  Have fun, make other people want to be you!

Go!  Fight!  Win!

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Gustin Joss

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Re: Judging Competitions
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 09:00:18 PM »

Have fun, make other people want to be you!

But, I don't even want to be me.
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Gustin Joss

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Re: Judging Competitions
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 09:04:04 PM »

Chris, eliminate competition?

Submit mix tapes and award scores based on viewer feedback/votes?
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Neff

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Re: Judging Competitions
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 09:08:11 PM »

Submit mix [uncut] tapes and award scores based on viewer feedback/votes?
This I like.
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Gustin Joss

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Re: Judging Competitions
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 10:45:22 PM »

Submit mix [uncut] tapes and award scores based on viewer feedback/votes?
This I like.

I was just thinking about doing your new ladder next to a clock in DT SA to show real time attempts. I want to see if I can run a perfect score.
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