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Author Topic: Spinabolo top  (Read 4238 times)

poptop

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Spinabolo top
« on: February 22, 2012, 04:16:26 AM »

Daveid's videos always amaze me and make me want to play better.  I thought I'd post up a nod to our friend and show off my imitation of one of his inventive creations,  Cheers!

Spinabolo Spin Top
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Erratic Wobbler

trompillo

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Re: Spinabolo top
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 05:23:52 AM »

Good video¡ thanks for sharing.
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Muzico

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Re: Spinabolo top
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 05:29:34 AM »

Good job! I like it!
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Eric

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Re: Spinabolo top
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2012, 12:40:01 PM »

Really nice poptop!.......................but, a coat and hat.....and flip flops?.......was it cold in the upper half of the room?..... >:D
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To everything turn, turn, turn..................

Gustin Joss

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Re: Spinabolo top
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 12:59:04 PM »

Yes!
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Neff

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Re: Spinabolo top
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 01:15:58 PM »

Apogee next!  How did you start the yellow half only version?
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poptop

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Re: Spinabolo top
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 02:32:26 PM »

Thanks guys,

@ Eric: I had just come in from the garage where it was a bit chilly (by Cali standards anyway ;D).  As for the sandals, bad judgment, but good comfort. :-X

@Neff: I started both the half and the whole globe with a two handed slap start (I think that's what we'd call it)--it's at 0:24.  Believe it or not, the half was easier for me than the whole. 

The half precesses slower than the whole.  I'm not sure if this is simply because it has a lower center of gravity, or because the ratio of inertia of the heavier whole globe relative to the torque applied by the string is greater compared to the lighter half version.  It be swell if the physics experts might weigh in on this please?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 02:34:40 PM by poptop »
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johnm

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Re: Spinabolo top
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 09:58:20 PM »

The half precesses slower than the whole.  I'm not sure if this is simply because it has a lower center of gravity, or because the ratio of inertia of the heavier whole globe relative to the torque applied by the string is greater compared to the lighter half version.  It be swell if the physics experts might weigh in on this please?

Let’s consider the case of a simple top spinning on a surface with the tip position fixed so we can ignore all the complications added by a player’s motion of the string etc.  A freshmen physics text will provide an analysis of a spinning top in a gravitational field resulting in an equation for the precession rate of the top in terms of the following parameters:

m= total mass of the top

I= moment of inertia about the axis of rotation of the top (basically a representation of the distribution of the mass about the axis of rotation)

r= distance of the center of mass (which lies on the axis of rotation) from the fixed point of rotation

w= angular rate of rotation (angular speed) about the top’s axis (spinning speed)

P= angular rate of rotation (angular speed) about the direction of gravity or the rate of Precession

g= the acceleration due to gravity (just a constant due to the earth in our case)

The equation is P = (m * r * g) / (I * w)
where the asterisk “ * ” means multiply and the slash “ / “ means divide.

If the mass or the distance to the center of mass is increased, the precession rate gets faster.
If the mass or the distance to the center of mass is decreased, the precession rate gets slower.
If the moment of inertia or the spinning speed increases, the precession rate gets slower.
If the moment of inertia or the spinning speed decreases, the precession rate gets faster.

For the case of your half and full ball assemblies, several of the parameters change making the problem more complicated. 
1)Adding the second half increases the total mass m which increases the precession rate for the full ball.
2)Adding the second half increases the height of the center of mass so r increases which increases the precession rate for the full ball
3)Adding the second half increases the moment of inertia which decreases the precession rate for the full ball
4)The added moment of inertia due to the second half reduces the spinning speed w for the same number and strength of regeneration pulls so most likely w is lower for the full ball which means the precession rate for the full ball is increased.

Thus the change of adding the second half adjusts the relevant parameters in such a way that some tend to increase the precession rate (1,2,4) and others tend to decrease the precession rate (3).  In your particular observations, for the full ball assembly vs the half ball, the rate increasing parameters win out making the full ball precess more quickly.  With some regenerating effort you may be able to get the full ball spinning fast enough such that it precesses slower than the half ball.
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ta0

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Re: Spinabolo top
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 10:25:26 PM »

I was about to post the comment below but when I did preview I saw somebody else had posted while I was writing. Lo and behold it was John with a detailed explanation.  I don't have anything to add, but as I already wrote it and I made some assumptions to simplify the result, I am posting it.

==================

Quote
The half precesses slower than the whole.  I'm not sure if this is simply because it has a lower center of gravity, or because the ratio of inertia of the heavier whole globe relative to the torque applied by the string is greater compared to the lighter half version.  It be swell if the physics experts might weigh in on this please?

The precession is proportional to the torque and inversely proportional to the angular momentum.
The torque applied by gravity is equal to the weight of the top times the distance of the center of mass from the tip.
The angular momentum is equal to the rotational inertia times the spin rate.

If you assume most of the mass of the spinabolo is in the shells, both the mass and the rotational inertia double when you add the second shell, so they cancel each other.  On the other hand the center of mass will be further from the tip (by a factor of less than two).

So, if there are no errors in this reasoning, it should in fact precess faster with two shells, assuming you spin them up to the same spin rate.
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poptop

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Re: Spinabolo top
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2012, 09:42:28 PM »

Thank you both! 

My pea brain will need a little time and effort to truly absorb it all, but I think I get the gist.  And importantly, the explanations fit the observations!  The half vs whole globe experiment is neat demo--I learned a thing or two.

I really appreciate the effort and the education guys.
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