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Current Posts => Latest Spin => Topic started by: Neff on January 27, 2010, 10:59:36 PM

Title: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: Neff on January 27, 2010, 10:59:36 PM
I have two things I'd like to discuss about Nationals 2010 with regard to the Spin Top freestyles.

1)  Am I correct that in past years the freestyles are open to fixed or bearing?  Possibly in part because of a lack of competitors?  I could (and will) write why I think it would be much better to have two divisions like at Worlds.  Before I go into that, I wanted to confirm that's the way it is, what general consensus is about it, and who's the person in charge that would listen to requests for a change?

2)  Playing surface.  It was discussed in a previous thread bringing puzzle mats for the competition.  I am way so in favor of bringing our own surface, just not that surface.  I bought some puzzle mats for my basement and I quickly put them back in the box.  When a top lands sideways, even at medium speed, it shoots off very fast.  So i'm imagining that surface on the Chico stage, and a top landing sideways could get damaged anyway because it will shoot WELL BEYOND the playing surface, or even at a person, or heaven forbid, A JUDGE.  :-[

So, carpet? A low pile carpet? Carpet does has disadvantages - if the player drops the top but it's still spinning on the ground, carpet significantly reduces the precious time the player has to "save" it and keep going.  Still, I think carpet is the lesser of the three evils (concrete being the third).  Obviously, nobody is going to take a roll of carpet with them on a plane, so I was thinking about purchasing carpet in Chico and donating it to Bob, if he has a place to store it.  We could of course discuss size and type of carpet, but I'm not sure if anybody agrees?
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: ta0 on January 27, 2010, 11:23:37 PM
Last year was the first time that Worlds was divided into two divisions, with two titles. Before that there was only one freestyle and you were free to use whatever combination of fixed tip and bearing tip tops you wanted. The idea was to do the same with Nats but because of some "logistics" (few competitors, one traveling trophy, one spintop nats champions-display trophy at the yo-yo museum) it was decided to have an overall national champion, even though 1st, 2nd and 3rd places were to be given in each style. I think the idea is that as the sport evolves there may even be more divisions, like has happened with yo-yos.

There is talk of having our own mini-stage separate from the yo-yo competition at worlds. There are two reasons for this. First, each year there is less stage time available as yo-yos take more time. Second, we have different requirements such as tops not liking concrete.

Alan is the contest boss right now but I think we are all open to suggestions, specially now that there is plenty of time.
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: Neff on January 28, 2010, 10:38:11 AM
There is talk of having our own mini-stage separate from the yo-yo competition at worlds.
I saw discussion of this about nationals, but at worlds too?

I think I generally see both sides of the coin regarding two divisions versus one.
One division:  Supreme Ruler of Top Spinning easily defined, stage time easier to fit into yo-yo contest.
Two divisions:  Judging not so apples and oranges, more stage time for tops!

I really like the idea of two divisions with 1st 2nd & 3rd, and for those that compete in both, best cumulative score = Supreme Ruler of Top Spinning.
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: ta0 on January 28, 2010, 11:07:07 AM
There is talk of having our own mini-stage separate from the yo-yo competition at worlds.
I saw discussion of this about nationals, but at worlds too?

Sorry, I meant Nationals not Worlds.
In fact, a few weeks ago Dale told me he wanted to discuss this with Alan.
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: ta0 on January 29, 2010, 12:40:30 PM
Last year there was at least one request to change the format at the last moment. It is now the time to suggest changes. I specially would like to hear from any potential competitors at either nats or worlds (e.g., Mike, Darren, Mark, John, etc). Thanks!
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: Darren Kim on January 30, 2010, 08:31:44 PM
I like the idea of "padding" the stage, and I like the idea of our own stage, because it seems like yo-yo takes up 99% of the time any ways, and that would allow us to perform on our time.
The different divisions is cool.

Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: Neff on January 31, 2010, 10:35:21 PM
Thanks for the input!  I hope more people give their two cents on this, whether they plan to compete or not.
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: the Earl of Whirl on February 01, 2010, 08:41:28 PM
Yes, rubber pads/mats on the stage mean the top will hit them and fly off.  I like putting an inexpensive indoor/outdoor carpet on the mats.  This keeps the tops from flying off and still gets some cushion to protect the tops.  I know this just adds to all the set up.  Sorry.

It's too bad that the nationals don't seem to care much about tops.  They seem to go with what has the most interest.  Maybe they will pay more attention to us if we show them that there are more contestants? 

Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: Neff on February 01, 2010, 09:56:57 PM
I guess it would add to set-up Mike but it would be lighter and more portable than a roll of carpet or a stack of carpet tiles.  It would protect the tops better too.  I've got 24 2'x2' puzzle mats that look like the image below that I could donate to the cause.
(http://www.adamantbarbell.com/images/large/mt-1112.jpg)

Mike, what do you think about two divisions?
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: jim in paris on February 02, 2010, 10:30:10 AM
hi folks
you know i won't be there either for worlds or nats........///////

material
i would go for buying a piece of carpet on the spot
the ones used in exhibits and so on , are really thin and often come coated with a transparent plastic for protection before use
thats at the same time soft enough to absorb a strong shock and flat enough for getting the top back from the floor
comp
nothing much  to say about a comp in which spinning top is considered mostly as a sport : the rules go with that idea and 2 divisions seem the right option considering today's level
besides that : a sport ladder is a must
and why not a AP category with show , accessories,big tops , costume,rascals, and etc.... i'm sure mike could act the blond topcycle

 ;D ;D ;D

my 2 euros
(§ 1.3913 against euro = dollar up,euro down )


jim
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: Watts' Tops on February 02, 2010, 04:50:29 PM
Just two questions--  Where and When?  If at all possible, I would love to be at the Nationals but do not have the required info. ::)
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: Neff on February 02, 2010, 05:18:22 PM
Nationals is usually the first weekend of October in Chico, California.
Worlds is usually in mid-August in Orlando, Florida.
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: Dick Stohr on February 02, 2010, 05:27:28 PM
Web site for Worlds 
http://www.worldyoyocontest.com/ (http://www.worldyoyocontest.com/)

Web site for US National
http://www.nationalyoyo.org/contest/index.htm (http://www.nationalyoyo.org/contest/index.htm)
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: the Earl of Whirl on February 02, 2010, 06:35:45 PM
Chris,

I don't mind two divisions.  I was surprised that we didn't have more participants in each division.  Maybe this year will be different?

I also have those same mats.  They seem to work out pretty well, imho.
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: Spinningray on February 03, 2010, 12:40:54 AM
I spoke with Thad today about some ideas for the 2010 National Spin Top Contest.

He is looking into the possibility of creating a wooden platform 12' x 8' (three 4x8 sheets of plywood) supported by 2x4's and then covered with outdoor carpeting (minimal cost). It could be located opposite of the main stage. The small stage area would serve as the backdrop. This would be the official location of the yo-yo ladder, spin top trick list, diabolo freestyles, and spin top freestyles. The one-minute qualifying freestyles could also be held there (if required). There would be a defined schedule so that people would know when to watch the events that interest them and the contestants would know when they need to be ready to perform. The platform could be stored at the Bird in Hand warehouse for use every year. The sound system could be a boom box under the judges table. We would need a volunteer to run the timer and music.

I think having two freestyle divisions (fixed tip and bearing tip) is still appropriate.  We found that the fixed tip freestyles from Worlds and Nationals last year scored consistently higher than the bearing tip freestyles. One-way bearing tops will only be allowed in the fixed tip division since you can add spin to the top. We may need to create a one-way bearing tip division someday if they become popular.
There will be 6 freestyle medals available. Three places for each division. The person with the highest combined scores (fixed and bearing) will be the National Spin Top Champion and receive a trophy cup, the National Spin Top Contest Top (10” traveling trophy top), and have their name engraved on the museum trophy. If spin tops ever become popular enough, we may need to have separate trophies in the museum.

The spin top trick list division will continue to be “pick your trick” format. I’m still not sure of the age divisions. There were some last minute changes last year. I will make sure we have that nailed down in the next couple of months and have Thad get the website updated early this year. Hopefully, 2010 will be the best contest yet.

I am always open to any comments or suggestions. Anything we can do to make the contest more fun and less stressful will help participation.
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: Neff on February 03, 2010, 01:45:52 AM
Thanks for taking the time to write all that out, Alan.  I support everything written above.  It's unfortunate there isn't time to share the main stage, but I'd rather reduce the time strain than add to it.  I had a theory that fixed would outscore bearing, thanks for confirming that, for this reason I totally agree with one-way bearing tips in fixed division only.

I appreciate your efforts and please let me know if there is any way I can help.  :D
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: ta0 on February 03, 2010, 09:24:52 AM
Yes, thanks a lot Alan for the work you do to keep the spintop contests going. And thanks to Thad and Bob Malowney for making room for us at the US national yo-yo contest.

I like a lot these ideas. We probably need 3 official titles: Bearing Spintop National Champion, Fixed-tip Spintop National Champion, Overall Spintop National Champion.

Quote
The small stage area would serve as the backdrop.
Do you mean this?:

(http://www.ta0.com/photos/images/contests/nats08_gasing.jpg)

I think it will work nicely. We may even  find that we have enough time on the small stage for other spintop activities  ;D
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: the Earl of Whirl on February 03, 2010, 10:56:34 PM
Hmmmmm.......a 12' by 8' stage?  I guess I will have to cut down on some of my dancing moves.  I will try to contain myself.

No one has said anything about the height available.  Hope there is at least eight feet for my stilts.  At 56 years of age a cracked head doesn't heal as quickly as it used to.

Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: ta0 on February 04, 2010, 10:04:11 AM
It would be nice if the backdrop included the wording "National Spinning Top Contest." (or "National Spintop Contest") I would be willing to donate some money for that, if required.

The tree in front of the stage may be in a inconvenient place, I am not sure.
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: SpinQueen on February 04, 2010, 12:32:48 PM
Hmm, I'm not sure about that stage....someone might get run over by that train.   Perhaps they could build the new platform to butt up against the taller of the two steps of the small stage so that it fits flush against the top level...that would give the spin-top players a bit more room so we wouldn't feel as though we're going to fall off the edge.  I'm just sayin....if they're going to go through the trouble of building something...a little planning could go a long way.   Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: Dick Stohr on February 04, 2010, 02:00:02 PM
Ta0, did you miss that this stage would also be used by the yo-yo ladder, and the diabolo ladder & freestyles?
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: Neff on February 04, 2010, 02:48:28 PM
...someone might get run over by that train.   
I think that's a trolly - wait - Cable Car!  Ha!
From Alan's text I interpret that our new stage would be positioned in front of steps, and it may have to be because of the little trees.  Thinking about Spin Queen's idea... since the concrete step is curved, it could be a little tricky to butt the wood stage to the concrete, but what if we put the new stage on top of the concrete, butting up to the Trolly, and extend out beyond the curved steps with posts in the corners resting on the sidewalk (assuming it is no less than 8 feet from the Trolly to the grass). This would make the stage a little higher for visibility, and would help prevent any foot traffic behind the stage.  Just an idea.
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: MarkHayward on February 05, 2010, 12:50:37 AM
I like that idea Chris.  I really hate it when people walk behind the action.

I don't know what we are going to do when one-way bearing tops hit their stride.  I think it's not really fair to have them in either division, but I am loathe to say we should add a separate one-way bearing division.  Not only am I not a fan of ever-growing numbers of divisions, but we also have a very small pool of competitors, so I hate to dilute any division's numbers by creating a whole new one.  That being said, I don't have a better idea.
Title: Re: Questions about 2010 Nationals
Post by: ta0 on February 05, 2010, 03:15:36 PM
Quote
Ta0, did you miss that this stage would also be used by the yo-yo ladder, and the diabolo ladder & freestyles?
I did realize that. But in case they were not planning to get a backdrop I could contribute to defray the cost of getting one so that it mentions the spintop national contest. Of course, it would also include the yo-yo national sign.