iTopSpin

Current Posts => Collecting, Modding, Turning and Spin Science => Topic started by: jmadrigal on August 28, 2016, 09:02:10 PM

Title: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on August 28, 2016, 09:02:10 PM
I have been having fun with my printer and trying to get decent top made. I am using the metal tip that was supposed to go on the Short Circuit (from the upgrade pack). I have been extremely pleased with my results so far. I am on my 4th iteration (which is printing now). This is my 3rd and it plays really well.
 
Specs: 72mm tall (not including tip) 87mm (including tip) / 65mm wide / 77gm
           

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_31554-20160828_165834-1968410768.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_31554-20160828_165834-1968410768.jpg.html)

This is iteration 2 next to 3. I made the 3rd version wider and added material to the shoulder.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_31554-20160828_165611-1589032707.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_31554-20160828_165611-1589032707.jpg.html)

The top area comes out a bit sketchy since I print it upside down. I use support material to help but it still comes out a bit rough. I figure it's worth it for the one piece design.
(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_31554-20160828_165705-2025932626.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_31554-20160828_165705-2025932626.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_31554-20160828_165701-38629147.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_31554-20160828_165701-38629147.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Neff on August 28, 2016, 09:06:16 PM
Excellent!  Nice size, nice shape. I bet that shoulder would clean up on a lathe rather well
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on August 28, 2016, 10:18:16 PM
The lathe is a good idea, I will have to look into that. I am hoping to step up to a lager version once I am happy with the weight distribution. I assume it should scale up.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on August 28, 2016, 11:20:53 PM
Looks very good!
What is the plastic? ABS?
Do you think it will withstand normal play and falls?

We are at the start of a revolution . . .
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on August 28, 2016, 11:45:02 PM
I used ABS on this version but also want to use nylon in the future. I dropped it a few times already (on tile) without any issues. I used 3mm walls on this version but doubled wall thickness on my new version. I will be looking out for strength issues.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: dazzlingdave on August 29, 2016, 12:20:51 AM
This is great, and I bet it would scale up to larger tops just fine!

Nice work.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on August 29, 2016, 09:19:48 AM
I will bring it along to Nationals this year if anyone wants to try it out. I will most likely only be there Saturday since there isn't a top competition. I don't know how much time there will be but I would love to meet other top players.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: robtsou on August 29, 2016, 09:23:34 AM
Very Nice! I'm going to have to get my printer back up and working!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on August 29, 2016, 10:48:48 AM
omg this opens up so many possibilities @-@
well done sir!!!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: kyo on August 30, 2016, 12:53:12 AM
Some tuning on your printer will eliminate most of that roughness on the overhang.

You can turn/sand/etc to some extent to remove it, but keep in mind that prints aren't solid.. you only have a few walls of plastic before you expose the underlying structural fill.

I've not had time (and currently am down a couple printers thanks to shipping to/from worlds causing damage) to do much on tops but it's certainly a good application for printers. In theory, given enough print time, you could make very light weight, very large tops. The problem is finding 20+ hours to have a printer occupied and running smoothly.

Kyle
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on August 30, 2016, 09:41:08 PM
Kyle,
Thanks for your input. It forced me to investigate my settings on the slicer a little deeper. I am going to try a few things to improve my print. Right now I am sitting at about a 4 hour print for this version. I am glad I finally got around to working on this. I have to many projects.  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on September 02, 2016, 09:25:51 PM
So this is Rev D of my top creations. I figure I would show a short video of how it plays.

https://youtu.be/nEN9URVKvA0
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on September 02, 2016, 09:56:00 PM
You could have fooled me into thinking that you were playing with a Giulia. Nice!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: 113 on September 02, 2016, 10:36:32 PM
Dear JMadrigal,

This is why I am glad I joined this forum! Thank you so much for the inspiration!

113
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on September 02, 2016, 10:55:37 PM
ta0
I did like the one piece design of the Giulia so it was a starting point. I am still playing around with the weight distribution but I am definitely happy with the play. The fun thing is getting to tweak as much as I want without spending a ton.

113
Thanks for the kind words. I am glad to part of the community and be able to stir the creative fires. I hope I can see some others printing their ideas as well.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on September 02, 2016, 11:09:35 PM
That is GREAT.  Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Neff on September 02, 2016, 11:23:50 PM
Success!  looks like a fun shape and size. Nice tricks too  8)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: dazzlingdave on September 22, 2016, 09:07:08 AM
These were fun to play with at Nationals. I am looking forward to the next generation with the new 3D printer.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on September 22, 2016, 10:11:26 AM
I am currently trying to get the new machine up. It arived with a bad extruder motor. I should get the replacement today.
 I will concentrate on better prints leading to my eventual 4" top.  ;D
I am also working on a tippy top for fun.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on September 26, 2016, 10:29:26 PM
So the new machine is up and running and this is the maiden voyage. So far I am impressed with this. Not much vibe at all right off the printer.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20160926_182317.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160926_182317.jpg.html)

The shoulder printed really nicely.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20160926_182335.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160926_182335.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20160926_185626.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160926_185626.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20160926_185553.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160926_185553.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on September 27, 2016, 01:45:40 AM
Very nice. Time to go BIG.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on September 27, 2016, 10:25:26 AM
Very nice! I wish I could wake up in the morning and just say: "I think I'll print a top today"

How long does it take to print one? At what resolution are you printing?
Would they still look stringy if you sand them?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on September 27, 2016, 11:47:53 AM
The print takes about 4 hours on .25mm layer thickness. To get a better finished look l was thinking about an acetone bath. The white one actually doesn't bother me like the others.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jim in paris on September 27, 2016, 02:22:52 PM
excellent result !!

it's a dream to take a nap while the top is taking form  :D :D
thanks for showing ..
how about the CO2 footprint of these machines ?

from a semantic viewpoint the word "print" has now many different meanings

jim 8)


Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on September 27, 2016, 08:30:19 PM
how about the CO2 footprint of these machines ?

I am not sure how big the footprint is on this. I would expect small since they are basically hot glue guns with motors. Production of the materials is where I could see an issue but I am just guessing.

They have a bunch of options for materials. I have been impressed with the strength of ABS. No wonder it's used for Lego bricks.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 11, 2016, 08:48:58 PM
More fun with 3D printed tops.
I decided to make a tippy top for fun. It was more difficult than I thought, this is rev6.

https://youtu.be/SUC7g7BLvY0
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 20, 2016, 10:04:35 PM
I am excited. Just had a tip made for a larger (4" -5") top. Will be working on printing this soon. More to come ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on October 21, 2016, 10:18:42 AM
I am excited. Just had a tip made for a larger (4" -5") top. Will be working on printing this soon. More to come ;D
I am also excited about 4" - 5" 3D printed tops!  :o
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on October 21, 2016, 10:30:21 AM
I am excited. Just had a tip made for a larger (4" -5") top. Will be working on printing this soon. More to come ;D


your work is revolutionary sir!!! good luck!!!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: dazzlingdave on October 21, 2016, 05:24:34 PM
Can't wait to see what you come up with!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: CUPER on October 21, 2016, 06:31:09 PM
buen trabajo,,,respecto al abs es una resina muy resistente  me atreveria dezir ke mas ke policarbnato,,,,zaludos
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 21, 2016, 06:44:00 PM
8 hours into this print ~4 more hours to go. Working on rev2 while I wait.

abs es una resina muy resistente 
Verdad que el ABS es muy fuerte. Ya a dejado caer los otros trompos que a hecho sin problema.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jim in paris on October 22, 2016, 12:10:23 PM
tippy top

hello again : weight distribution works perfectly
if you liked to improve stability after the return effect , you could round up the tip with a nail sharpener

jim
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Turegano on October 22, 2016, 04:40:25 PM
esta  buenisimo    yo intente hacerlo aso  pero  se  me  caia  cada que  llegaba al centro  del cuerpo   y  tambien pienso  almenos  aca en mexico  es muy cara su  fabricacion  pero  buenissimo   
 el abs  es  resistente  felicidades !!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 22, 2016, 10:38:24 PM
Well here she is.
259gm / 4.45" diameter / 5.45" tall (no tip)
I made a string with 6 (No 10) crochet thread and she regenerates well. I am going to fix some things on rev2. I think she can be lighter. The next shape will be closer to the small top I have been making. I have to rethink things for the larger top. All in all I am happy with this first rev. I shall name her Galdis. Rev2 soon to come.......

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161022_151642.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161022_151642.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161022_183342.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161022_183342.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on October 22, 2016, 11:46:02 PM
Well here she is.
259gm / 4.45" diameter / 5.45" tall (no tip)
I made a string with 6 (No 10) crochet thread and she regenerates well. I am going to fix some things on rev2. I think she can be lighter. The next shape will be closer to the small top I have been making. I have to rethink things for the larger top. All in all I am happy with this first rev. I shall name her Galdis. Rev2 soon to come.......




...................wow
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on October 23, 2016, 01:46:51 AM
Nice looking top and string. Cant waite to see it in action. Did you make the string?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 23, 2016, 12:57:15 PM
Cecil,
I did make the string and here she is in action.
Threw this together this morning.

https://youtu.be/MV_Bd2cK2-A
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on October 23, 2016, 01:16:58 PM
We are seeing the future in top making! Wonderful!

We are also watching a future top champ: great skill there!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: the Earl of Whirl on October 23, 2016, 04:07:10 PM
Go jmadrigal!!!  Nice tricks and nice work making tops!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 23, 2016, 08:48:10 PM
We are seeing the future in top making! Wonderful!

We are also watching a future top champ: great skill there!
Wow, thanks for the kind words. I am working hard at my tricks as well at top building.

Go jmadrigal!!!  Nice tricks and nice work making tops!
Thanks!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on October 23, 2016, 10:23:33 PM
WOW. I loved the video. I enjoy watching big tops in action. Your tops are looking great. Anytime your in the BAY AREA get in touch with me and we'll have a lot of fun. Life is great when you have TROMPO BUDDIES.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 24, 2016, 12:40:02 PM
WOW. I loved the video. I enjoy watching big tops in action. Your tops are looking great. Anytime your in the BAY AREA get in touch with me and we'll have a lot of fun. Life is great when you have TROMPO BUDDIES.
Thanks Cecil,
I will definitely look you up when I head up there. I sometimes go to Santa Rosa.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 24, 2016, 08:12:31 PM
Here are pictures of Rev2.
5.2" diameter / 5.4" tall (without tip) / 229gm
.2mm layer thickness with 60% fill.
2mm wall thickness with 5mm at the shoulder for better stability.
I had to make a bit of a thicker string for her but she is worth it. More stable than Gladis. This one shall be named Purple Rain.
I have Rev3 all cadded up. Hope to get it printed soon. It will be a different shape than the first two.
I tried to take pictures of the process bellow.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161024_083835.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161024_083835.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161024_084152.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161024_084152.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161024_084636.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161024_084636.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161024_085528.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161024_085528.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161024_092525.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161024_092525.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161024_092552.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161024_092552.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on October 24, 2016, 09:39:25 PM
Very nice. Purple Rain has a nice shape.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 24, 2016, 10:42:48 PM
Very nice. Purple Rain has a nice shape.
I went back to the shape used for the smaller top. It is very stable and fun.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: lincolnrick on October 24, 2016, 11:52:15 PM
Great looking tops! Like Ta0 says, we're looking at the future!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on October 25, 2016, 12:26:31 AM
 :o 8)
Wow! That is a big top! It must have taken quite a long time to print.
The shape reminds me a Chinese tuoluo.
Impressive!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Neff on October 25, 2016, 12:38:33 AM
Fantastic work, both in the shop and on the string.

Have you considered a larger hole in the crown to lower center of gravity and also increase accessibility?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on October 25, 2016, 07:51:01 PM
Cecil,
I did make the string and here she is in action.
Threw this together this morning.

spiffy to the max  8)

Here are pictures of Rev2.
5.2" diameter / 5.4" tall (without tip) / 229gm
.2mm layer thickness with 60% fill.
2mm wall thickness with 5mm at the shoulder for better stability.
I had to make a bit of a thicker string for her but she is worth it. More stable than Gladis. This one shall be named Purple Rain.
I have Rev3 all cadded up. Hope to get it printed soon. It will be a different shape than the first two.
I tried to take pictures of the process bellow.



(http://i.imgur.com/3w1ej.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 25, 2016, 09:09:48 PM
lincolnrick- Thanks

ta0- The tops shape does have that Chinese look. It's supper stable and a great top. It took 18 hours to print so it is time consuming.

Neff- Thanks. I scraped Rev3 and went right to Rev4 with your recommendation added. I made the crown larger. It's printing as I write this. I am excited about this one.

Jack- How did you know I am a Star Trek fan :)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 26, 2016, 10:26:15 PM
Well I have the blues.  :(
~140 gm and 4.5" wide. As you can see a larger crown hole, which is cool.
The only thing is she is a bit unstable but still playable. It reminds me of how the short circuit acts when you put in the aluminum tip.
I have made a few mods and am already printing another.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161026_185810.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161026_185810.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161026_185830.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161026_185830.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on October 27, 2016, 12:24:13 AM
Big blue!  8)

If I am not mistaken, the tip is fixed in place with a washer and a hex screw. Get a longer screw and place a couple of nuts to make the tip heavier. If the problem is that axial and transverse moments of inertia are the same (what we suspect happens with the short circuit), this could fix it (or make it worse  ::) ).
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on October 27, 2016, 12:34:51 AM
Well I have the blues.  :(
~140 gm and 4.5" wide. As you can see a larger crown hole, which is cool.
The only thing is she is a bit unstable but still playable. It reminds me of how the short circuit acts when you put in the aluminum tip.
I have made a few mods and am already printing another.

ur a 3d printing fiend my good man!!!
also your string looks spiffy spiffy, did you make that on your 6 ply rig???
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: mailman on October 27, 2016, 08:43:58 AM
Well I have the blues.  :(
~140 gm and 4.5" wide. As you can see a larger crown hole, which is cool.
The only thing is she is a bit unstable but still playable. It reminds me of how the short circuit acts when you put in the aluminum tip.
I have made a few mods and am already printing another.

This top looks very straight-sided again, like the orange one you made earlier.  I thought you got better performance out of the more curved profile, like you used on the white one and the purple one....
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Sabaspin on October 27, 2016, 02:14:34 PM
The Tops look very nice  and the routine was  awesome .  8)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 27, 2016, 08:46:44 PM
ta0- In my next rev I made the top 10mm longer and added more material around the shoulder. This seems to have solved the instability so I claim success on this shape. When I can get more tips I can see about trying to fix Big Blue. I am considering just going to emachineshop.com and ordering tips.

Jack- When your right your right, I get obsessed. I make the string the old fashioned way with a 2x4 , hooks, drill and a lot of room. I get good results although I am limited to about 8' strings.

mailman- I have gotten really nice results with the round shape for the smaller tops and decided to try it for a large top. The large top plays great although I wanted something more maneuverable for certain tricks. The material that bulges out around seems to make certain moves more challenging. I think this latest version I made is great but I will have to play with it a bit more before I decide if there will be more revs. I am currently working on a smaller version of this top, (think jumbo short circuit). I think this could be a fun shape.

Sabaspin - Thanks!


Well this is the latest Rev. 165gm, 4.5" in diameter and 4.75" tall (without tip).
Stormy might me a good name :) Time to go test her out more.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161027_172036.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161027_172036.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161027_172057.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161027_172057.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on October 28, 2016, 01:30:51 AM
One top is 8.0 inches the other is 10. 1/2 inches. I really missed the shape on both these tops. The clear one has to much of an angle, and I don't like the crown on the big one. Not enough radius. That's why I allways need to make another top. I think you know what I mean.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on October 28, 2016, 09:23:20 AM
Well this is the latest Rev. 165gm, 4.5" in diameter and 4.75" tall (without tip).
Stormy might me a good name :) Time to go test her out more.

(https://sarabynoe.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/crazy-clapping1.gif?w=620)



I just don't like the look of the straight angle.

(https://i.imgflip.com/1d4pob.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on October 28, 2016, 10:39:59 AM
Stormy weather never looked so good!

Big mouth tops are very convenient. When traveling you can stack several or put smaller tops inside. And if you are stuck in a raft in the middle of the ocean you can use them to catch rainwater in stormy weather. >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jeremy McCreary on October 28, 2016, 01:08:42 PM
NB:  Edited the text below to make it clearer and add the effect on AMI.

I have no experience with throwing tops. How does the top's curvature affect its play -- not just in theory, but in practice? (By "curvature" here, I mean the curvature of the top's silhouette in a plane containing its "axis" of symmetry.)

For example, let z track "height" along the axis, and r(z), the perpendicular "radius" from the axis to the silhouette at height z. Then the silhouette is just a graph of r(z) vs. z. If T(z) tracks string tension at the top as the string leaves height z, then the driving axial torque Qd(z) applied to the top grows with radius:

Qd(z) = T(z) r(z)

Hence the silhouette shapes the driving torque curve Qd(z), which in turn limits release speed. The aerodynamic braking torque Qa(z) opposing the driving torque also grows with r(z), but at an even faster rate. Hence the net axial torque (ignoring tip friction) at height z during spin-up is

Q(z) = Qd(z) - Qa(r(z)) = T(z) R(z) - Qa(z)

To accelerate the top to release speed, this net torque has to work against the top's axial moment of inertia (AMI), which depends on the shape of r(z) and grows very roughly with the square of mean radius.

When integrated over the appropriate height range, are any of the net effects noticeable in play?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on October 28, 2016, 04:52:33 PM
NB:  Edited the text below to make it clearer and add the effect on AMI.

I have no experience with throwing tops. How does the top's curvature affect its play -- not just in theory, but in practice? (By "curvature" here, I mean the curvature of the top's silhouette in a plane containing its "axis" of symmetry.)

For example, let z track "height" along the axis, and r(z), the perpendicular "radius" from the axis to the silhouette at height z. Then the silhouette is just a graph of r(z) vs. z. If T(z) tracks string tension at the top as the string leaves height z, then the driving axial torque Qd(z) applied to the top grows with radius:

Qd(z) = T(z) r(z)

Hence the silhouette shapes the driving torque curve Qd(z), which in turn limits release speed. The aerodynamic braking torque Qa(z) opposing the driving torque also grows with r(z), but at an even faster rate. Hence the net axial torque (ignoring tip friction) at height z during spin-up is

Q(z) = Qd(z) - Qa(r(z)) = T(z) R(z) - Qa(z)

At the same time, the axial moment of inertia (AMI) resisting the net axial torque depends on the height and shape of r(z) and grows roughly with mean radius.

When integrated over the appropriate height range, are any of the net effects noticeable in play?

(https://i.imgflip.com/exdu4.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jeremy McCreary on October 28, 2016, 06:23:37 PM
Ah, my evil scheme is working! So Jack, apart from top size, how does throwing top shape affect play in your experience? I'm particularly interested in the curvature of the silhouette below the widest part.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 28, 2016, 09:21:20 PM
Cecil- Making different shapes and trying new things is what is so fun about making tops. I think the straight sides allow certain tricks to be more accessible. With Stormy I was able to do a staircase to heaven with 3 wraps. I wasn't with the larger tops since they require thicker string. I am happy with this shape for play but I am sure I will continue experimenting with other shapes.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 28, 2016, 09:25:11 PM
I drew up the tip to send out for purchase through an online machine shop. I wanted opinions on material for the tip. I was thinking 7075 aluminum would be good for strength, cost and machinability. 
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on October 29, 2016, 11:19:40 AM
Jeremy: changes in air drag have no effect on play. The shape of the conical part has little effect during play, except for the following:

1. It may affect the stability of the wrap and how hard you can throw it.
2. If you land on the string with the side of the body, a more convex shape will help the string slide towards the tip instead of killing the spin.
3. A more convex shape will result in a lower center of mass, with slower precession and more stability/less response.
4. A convex shape may make it more difficult for the top to go around the string without touching it.

A straight shape (cone) works well, as do convex shapes. On the other hand, a concave shape like the one of the YYJ Chihuahua has big issues with 1 and 2:

(http://www.ta0.com/Button-n-String/Chihuahua_amber.jpg)

José: how much are they charging you for a tip? Aluminum is ok, but of course steel would be better (but more expensive to machine).
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jeremy McCreary on October 29, 2016, 11:47:34 AM
Jeremy: changes in air drag have no effect on play. The shape of the conical part has little effect during play, expect for the following...

Thanks, ta0 -- just what I was looking for.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jeremy McCreary on October 29, 2016, 11:54:17 AM
I think the straight sides allow certain tricks to be more accessible.

Is this mainly the string clearance issue ta0 mentioned?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 29, 2016, 01:07:03 PM
José: how much are they charging you for a tip? Aluminum is ok, but of course steel would be better (but more expensive to machine).

They have many options for material and the price depends heavily on quantity. Comparing aluminum 7075 to steel 4140 for 10 tips the price is ~21ea. If you kick up the quantity to 50 the price comes down to about 7 to 8 ea. If you get stainless the price is about 2 more per tip.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on October 29, 2016, 07:20:24 PM
So Jack, apart from top size, how does throwing top shape affect play in your experience? I'm particularly interested in the curvature of the silhouette below the widest part.

makes no difference.............you just make it work  ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on October 30, 2016, 02:02:53 AM
Is that $21.00 each for steal?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 30, 2016, 08:51:12 AM
Is that $21.00 each for steal?
Yes, at the lower quantity but even steel drops to about 8 at the higher quantity.
Stainless is more though, about a couple bucks more per tip on average. 
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on October 30, 2016, 01:23:05 PM
I think that's a great price. I have to make mine on a big manual lathe. The first one takes about 45 minutes then I can make them in about 30 minutes. I drill and tap 8 - 32 where I can pull the tip in. I'm lucky to get in the shop twice a month. At $ 21.00 a piece they are making them on a C.N.C lathe.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 30, 2016, 05:21:45 PM
What type of steel do you recommend?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on October 30, 2016, 05:23:56 PM
What type of steel do you recommend?

(http://www.relatably.com/m/img/steel-memes/e1c2c2d61e2a0f1101bb8cad6f5fb804baac0a13221e68e64785c1d1d1362590.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 30, 2016, 05:46:15 PM
What type of steel do you recommend?

(http://www.relatably.com/m/img/steel-memes/e1c2c2d61e2a0f1101bb8cad6f5fb804baac0a13221e68e64785c1d1d1362590.jpg)
That may be extra ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 04, 2016, 11:54:58 AM
Made a short video for the latest project. I call her Seven. I am going to make a few more pushing the weight around. She weighs in at 184gm. It's a bit of a mashup of my past two designs. The machine has a better time printing the wider flat shoulders. I think it also feel more stable.

https://youtu.be/w3gdQCYDkV8
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on November 04, 2016, 12:40:54 PM
I use tool steal. But STAINLESS is the best for me. I've made them out of delrin but they break to easy - the big ones I make out of Aluminum with a steal point. Stainless is Worth the extra money.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 04, 2016, 01:04:45 PM
Thanks Cecil, I will use stainless. I will try and make enough so that I will have extra if others need one.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on November 04, 2016, 07:34:21 PM
Nice freestyle! Number 7 sure seems to play well!

I think several on the board would want to buy some from you if you have them made (I'll buy some). If you want, you can receive pre-orders on the buy-sell board to have a better idea.

You could now have some fun and get creative with the top printing. For example, you could print one with holes and then cover them with the soda treatment (like Holey Ta0: original (http://www.ta0.com/forum/index.php/topic,437.0.html), with lenses (http://www.ta0.com/forum/index.php/topic,1824.msg18512.html#msg18512), with soda armor (http://www.ta0.com/forum/index.php/topic,3485.msg35509.html#msg35509)).
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 04, 2016, 09:27:59 PM
Thanks ta0. I have been working with it a bit today and was able to get "Stairway" with three wraps off regeneration. I was happy.

As far a the tips, I pulled the trigger today and ordered 30. The price isn't as cheep as 50, but it's what I was willing to part with today. I figure I will keep at least 10 and make 20 available. We can start with this tip and if people have changes that they want, we can address those on a Rev2. I will be more than happy to CAD up the changes. We can get an idea of how many people want tips before the next order. I am sorry for my impatience, but I have an amassing number of tops in need of tips  :)
For now there will be 20 available as I said before. Let me know who would like some tips. I figure the price will be $16 or so plus a buck or two for shipping. So lets say $18 shipped for 1 or $34 for 2, something like that. What say you all?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: lincolnrick on November 04, 2016, 11:44:32 PM
I would be in for one at least. If everyone here doesn't rush to order and take all the tops you have, I'd take a second one! Thanks for making the future available now.

Thanks DannyBoy2k.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: DannyBoy2k on November 05, 2016, 08:04:23 AM
I would be in for one at least. If everyone here doesn't rush to order and take all the tops you have, I'd take a second one! Thanks for making the future available now.

lincolnrick, the way I read it, only tips were being offered for sale.  However, if there was any interest in offering a full top for sale, I would definitely be in for one.

~Dan
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 05, 2016, 10:15:13 AM
lincolnrick- DannyBoy2k is correct and this is just for tips. Possibly in the future I could make a few available but currently I am just having fun prototyping.

Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 05, 2016, 10:32:05 AM
Here is a file with the critical dimensions for the top tip.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on November 05, 2016, 10:02:06 PM
I think I've made about 50 tips. So what you are doing is the best way to go. When you make tips on a CNC they are all the same, not so when you make them on a manual machine. If I made a tip the way you want it would be at least $ 50.00. If I had a metal lathe at home it would be $ 25.00. Steal tips are just not easy to make. Just like tops they take a lot of time.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on November 06, 2016, 10:33:10 AM
Comparing it to the tip on my JohnM 3" top, is not too different. John's has a little thicker neck (2.3" instead of 2") but narrower overall: 0.54" instead of 0.62". John is a tad shorter (outside the body): 0.82" instead of 0.92". But they are very close.

I like it. I am in for two of them.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 06, 2016, 01:23:24 PM
Comparing it to the tip on my JohnM 3" top, is not too different. John's has a little thicker neck (2.3" instead of 2") but narrower overall: 0.54" instead of 0.62". John is a tad shorter (outside the body): 0.82" instead of 0.92". But they are very close.

I like it. I am in for two of them.
Sounds good, I will let you know once I get them in. There is a 25 day lead time on these. I will keep you posted.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 07, 2016, 08:59:48 PM
This weekends work. Lots of time here :o I estimate over 50 hours in print time.
The large orange top is the latest. 177gm and 4.6" in diameter. I am happy with this shape. It's very playable and stable.
Out of curiosity what do wood tops of this size usually weigh?

The smaller tops are a similar shape shrunk down the orange one with the tip is 84gm and 3" in diameter. I am using the Quicksilver tip pressed in. The grey one with the tip only weighs 44gm and is 2.9" in diameter. It is a very light tip since I used very thin walls. It is also a testament to the ABS strength since I beat the tip in with a mallet.
On the orange one with the tip, I placed the tip in as soon as the top was done and still hot. When the top cooled and shrunk a bit the tip was in tight. I was quite by chance this happened but it was neat. 


(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161107_172948.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161107_172948.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/Mobile%20Uploads/20161107_173404.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161107_173404.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: yoyospin on November 07, 2016, 10:40:06 PM
Have a look at the metal and plastic tips Spintastics sells. I've used hundreds of their injection molded plastic ones. They are very consistantly made: http://www.spintastics.com/spin-tops/ (http://www.spintastics.com/spin-tops/)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on November 08, 2016, 12:11:58 AM
Made a short video for the latest project. I call her Seven. I am going to make a few more pushing the weight around. She weighs in at 184gm. It's a bit of a mashup of my past two designs. The machine has a better time printing the wider flat shoulders. I think it also feel more stable.

https://youtu.be/w3gdQCYDkV8

that was a pleasure to watch sir!!!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on November 08, 2016, 12:14:07 AM
This weekends work. Lots of time here :o I estimate over 50 hours in print time.
The large orange top is the latest. 177gm and 4.6" in diameter. I am happy with this shape. It's very playable and stable.
Out of curiosity what do wood tops of this size usually weigh?

The smaller tops are a similar shape shrunk down the orange one with the tip is 84gm and 3" in diameter. I am using the Quicksilver tip pressed in. The grey one with the tip only weighs 44gm and is 2.9" in diameter. It is a very light tip since I used very thin walls. It is also a testament to the ABS strength since I beat the tip in with a mallet.
On the orange one with the tip, I placed the tip in as soon as the top was done and still hot. When the top cooled and shrunk a bit the tip was in tight. I was quite by chance this happened but it was neat. 


(https://media.makeameme.org/created/After-much-consideration.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 08, 2016, 09:21:56 AM
Have a look at the metal and plastic tips Spintastics sells. I've used hundreds of their injection molded plastic ones. They are very consistantly made: http://www.spintastics.com/spin-tops/ (http://www.spintastics.com/spin-tops/)

The tip I used is from the Spintastics Quicksilver top. I have also used the YYF metal replacement tips on others. I am not really a fan of plastic tips.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on November 08, 2016, 09:14:31 PM
I am not really a fan of plastic tips.

Confucius say: metal tip is best tip @-@
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on November 13, 2016, 02:06:16 PM
I took old tip out of top and put it into my son in laws top. So this is the new one. I will get the dimensions.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 13, 2016, 03:14:04 PM
Looks good cecil. How much does a top like that weigh? I am trying to figure out how my printed tops compare to similar size wood tops.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on November 14, 2016, 12:32:51 AM
I took old tip out of top and put it into my son in laws top. So this is the new one. I will get the dimensions.

beautiful  :o
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Pulp on December 01, 2016, 03:55:21 AM
In Spanish by myself:

He entrado por primera vez en el foro desde hace muchísimo tiempo pues tenía curiosidad si la impresión 3 D, en la que estoy interesado hace tiempo había llegado ya a este mundo del trompo.

Estoy viendo en Pinterest tantas cosas maravillosas e increíbles hechas en impresión 3D que mucho me hubiera extrañado si no hubiera nada.

Pero me interesa también la tecnología que hay tras los maravillosos trompos que he visto en este hilo. Como cómo se hacen los diseños, si se escanea en 3D o se modela con un programa de ordenador y ver a la propia impresora en acción, o de cómo es el proceso completo, para que podamos irnos introduciendo también.

Es un mundo enorme y hay bastantes tipos de impresión 3D y materiales.


Atesoro el prototipo hecho en impresión 3D del prototipo de la Saturno, de Trompos Space. Supongo que seguirá siendo proceso previo a la producción crear un prototipo de cada trompo en impresión 3D para testar fácil el correcto funcionamiento.

In english with google traslator:

I have first entered the forum for a very long time because I was curious if the 3 D impression, in which I have been interested for a long time, has already reached this spinning world.

I am seeing in Pinterest so many wonderful and incredible things made in 3D printing that I would have missed a lot if there was nothing.

But I'm also interested in the technology behind the wonderful spins I've seen in this thread. How to make the designs, whether it is 3D scan for model with a computer program and see the printer itself in action, or how the process is complete, so we can introduce ourselves as well.

It's a huge world and there are quite a few types of 3D printing and materials.


I treasure the prototype made in 3D printing of the prototype of Saturn, from Space Trompos. I guess it will continue to be the pre-production process to create a prototype of each top in 3D printing to easily test the correct operation.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on December 02, 2016, 05:40:22 PM
Pulp
I think you are asking me the process I use for making/designing my tops. I use a 3D cad program to draw what I want to print. For simple things like tops, Google SketchUp is free and works fine. When you have made your drawing you need to generate a .stl file for your project. SketchUp does not do this directly but you can download an extension that will do this for you. Once you have your .stl file you upload it to your slicer software that lets you control how your print will be built. Here you select part print orientation, fill %, layer height, speed, temperature, support material and more. After this you ready to print.
From my experience machines vary wildly in quality. These machines are for people who like to tinker and usually won't give good prints without some work. Printers are getting better, but still need a lot of attention. For most consumer machines in the ~$500 range, I  would expect to put in a lot of time leveling the bed and working about your part lifting during the print.

As far as materials go, there are a lot of options. PLA is simple to print and does not require a heated bed but is not as durable as the other materials. ABS is strong but requires a heated bed and tends to have shrinkage/warping problems, so you have to design accordingly. Polycarbonate is impact resistant and strong but requires a nozzle that can print at over 300 C. Nylon is tough and would also be a good option but also requires higher nozzle temperatures. There are many other materials, these are just some of the common ones.

I think printing is definitely worth the time. I recently checked how much one of my 3" tops would cost through Shapeways. They quoted me over $200 for an ABS print. I think my machine is paying for it's self each time I make a top. :)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: kyo on December 03, 2016, 12:21:24 AM
So I haven't been following along since nationals.. AWESOME work :)

I hope the tips come out well from emachineshop, their tolerances are notoriously bad.. but for a tip it may not matter very much.

If there is serious interest in having tips made in quantity I can do it pretty cheap.. I'd have to have a decided up design that everybody wants. If there is interest in 100+ I'd just have one of my shops I work with do it, they're very cheap. Steel is a bit more, but that's mostly just material cost.. the time doesn't change much on a big cnc.

You should experiment with PETG. It does require a bit slower print times, but it prints like PLA with all the strength of ABS.. so like an abs that isn't a nightmare to print long prints with. They have some beautiful translucent petg too. (it goes under a number of different names now)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on December 04, 2016, 11:10:31 AM
Thanks kyo,
I have been busy since nationals as you can see.

I have used emachineshop for other simple items and have been happy. I think I would trust them for a top tip. Next time I am thinking of ordering I will check with you first.

Next time I buy material I will definitely buy some PETG. I have read good things about it and the colors are neat.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on December 13, 2016, 08:59:29 PM
So I have been working at improving my 3D printed tops. I have been working on a 3.5" diameter size. I think I have had a break through that is worth mentioning. By making my shoulder a 45 degree slope, I have made it possible for the machine to print without support material. This has allowed for a smooth looking shoulder area. I will be experimenting with this more but figured it was worth an update. The pictures below compare the different designs that I have been playing with.
It plays great to boot :)


(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20161213_174202.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20161213_174202.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20161213_174233.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20161213_174233.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: dazzlingdave on December 13, 2016, 09:48:40 PM
Looking great!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: the Earl of Whirl on December 13, 2016, 10:47:38 PM
Hmm.  Interesting.  Good idea!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on December 14, 2016, 12:11:27 AM
That is a great improvement in finish (and manual labor)! Congrats!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on December 14, 2016, 12:54:28 AM
this is better than sour patch kids @-@
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on December 15, 2016, 08:20:54 AM
For those who wanted a stainless steel tip that I had made....
I received the shipping notice and they should be hear next Monday. They were a little late but you know the saying.
I will be heading to Chico for Christmas so when I get back we can talk.

Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on March 06, 2017, 08:49:21 PM
I have been trying new plastics lately. I am using PETG which is the same plastic used to make soda bottles. This is Ruby, the first top I have produced with it. She is very light at about 97 gm without the tip. This plastic shows great potential.

3mm thick walls
95mm width
105 mm tall (without the tip)
~122 gm with the tip installed.


(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170306_172803.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170306_172803.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on March 06, 2017, 09:09:02 PM
I have been trying new plastics lately. I am using PETG which is the same plastic used to make soda bottles. This is Ruby, the first top I have produced with it. She is very light at about 97 gm without the tip. This plastic shows great potential.

3mm thick walls
95mm width
105 mm tall (without the tip)
~122 gm with the tip installed.


(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/bd/bd2c2a51ec2aac0ac300a861f0cdd761ceb09c97085ac82e861983fe05ce1909.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: yoyospin on March 06, 2017, 09:37:15 PM
That is a very attractive shape. I like the looks of the plastic as well...very uniform. Well done!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on March 07, 2017, 04:30:46 PM
Looks very, very playable. Will you be using any of these in Reykjavik?  ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on March 07, 2017, 08:19:30 PM
That is a very attractive shape. I like the looks of the plastic as well...very uniform. Well done!
Thanks

Looks very, very playable. Will you be using any of these in Reykjavik?  ;)
Ruby is lighter than I am used to but she is very playable.
I defiantly plan to use 3D printed tops in Reykjavik. Aside from Quicksilvers, printed tops are what I practice with so I have grown accustom to them. I want others to try them aw well and evaluate how they rate. Still in search of the perfect recipe.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on March 07, 2017, 11:16:45 PM
The Tip and Top look GOOD. The shapes I like are the Spintastic and Ripcord and the look of the C - tip. Love to see a video of Ruby in action. I hope this summer Ruby can meet Rosie - my 10.0 inch top.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on March 08, 2017, 02:06:29 PM
The Tip and Top look GOOD. The shapes I like are the Spintastic and Ripcord and the look of the C - tip. Love to see a video of Ruby in action. I hope this summer Ruby can meet Rosie - my 10.0 inch top.
It would be great to get together sometime. We will have to schedule a weekend. I will make a video when I have time.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on March 10, 2017, 11:29:55 AM
So on top of being a great top material, PETG is translucent. Ruby has a new look.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170310_081817.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170310_081817.jpg.html)
(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170310_081830.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170310_081830.jpg.html)
(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170310_081844.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170310_081844.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on March 10, 2017, 12:29:54 PM
It does look like a ruby!  8)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on March 10, 2017, 09:52:17 PM
That looks GOOD.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: the Earl of Whirl on March 11, 2017, 05:48:06 AM
Very cool!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 01, 2017, 05:37:40 PM
So I printed a green PETG top and an ABS yellow top.
The ABS top had adhesion issues between some layers and end up breaking during a throw. So I made lemonade and a video.

https://youtu.be/4IBXMP9_F_c
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on April 01, 2017, 06:07:59 PM
8)  8)  8)
Very nice 2-minute freestyle runs! I was really impressed that you could do Staircase to Heaven in the middle of both freestyles with such heavy tops!  :o
Well, done!

So, is that yellow top the lemonade (after the top broke and was repaired)? The shape is weird but you make it play great!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 01, 2017, 09:12:50 PM
When I printed the yellow one, I noticed a crack between layers about 28mm from the tip. This is caused from the warping that occurs (from temperature change)  while printing ABS. I threw it and one drop cracked the top. I figured I could glue it together, but then decided it would be more interesting with the tip on the top "crownless". I was amazed it actually worked well, and I think I liked it better. This was a great discovery for me and opened a new door for top shapes. I am currently printing a green PETG version that is based on this shape. While the yellow one is just taped together with electrical tape, it is a fantastic top.
The green top in the video is a similar shape to what the yellow top was supposed to be, just a bit lighter and different weight distribution. I like the green one a lot as well. It is basically the red top I made lengthened by about 12mm.
The red top is great but had a vibration that was intensified when I made heavier versions. This made me question the design and what variables I could use to accurately predict if a shape will be stable or not. I am going to find the center of gravity for a few of the tops I have made to see if this is a predictor for stability. I figure I will take a few of the good players and compare them with some of the versions with vibration.

I am sure some of the people turning wooden tops have gone over this. I would love to hear some advice on design.
I would be open to a collaboration if people have ideas on shapes I am not thinking of.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on April 01, 2017, 10:10:19 PM
I hope that you are aware that because of a long standing tradition, the judges give 10 extra points to players who use yellow tops and deduct 10 points from players who use green tops. It is a long (and sad) story but we have very good historic reasons for promoting one color and discouraging the other. That's why you never see green tops used in the freestyles.

Happy April's Fool Day
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 01, 2017, 10:28:24 PM
I hope that you are aware that because of a long standing tradition, the judges give 10 extra points to players who use yellow tops and deduct 10 points from players who use green tops. It is a long (and sad) story but we have very good historic reasons for promoting one color and discouraging the other. That's why you never see green tops used in the freestyles.

Happy April's Fool Day
Now you have me intrigued. So If I do identical freestyles with each color top I can have a perfect golf score.  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: the Earl of Whirl on April 05, 2017, 12:22:07 AM
I purchased a fidget spinner from the store known as Learning Express.  It is pretty interesting but more fascinating (to me) is to watch the reactions of children around me as I spin it and do some simple tricks.  One of the best things I do is with a pencil or stem and turn the spinner into a top.  People always seem interested in that. 

The connection to this thread is the fact that this fidget spinner was obviously made on a 3D printer.  I did not notice that until I got home.  I want to go back to the store and see how many in the display were made by 3D printers (there were 40-50 in the display cases).
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on April 05, 2017, 11:25:23 AM
So I printed a green PETG top and an ABS yellow top.
The ABS top had adhesion issues between some layers and end up breaking during a throw. So I made lemonade and a video.

https://youtu.be/4IBXMP9_F_c


first let me say you are a sneeky fellow there eh, i had no idea youre that that legit skilled with a Top dear sir @-@

secondly your designs are looking awsome @-@

thirdly what in the world is the trick at 3:42??? it looks like a variation of "joker choker" but ive never seen that done before, is there any chance you could record a close up of that??? i beg of yee dear sir, i must learn your ways, your kung fu is very strong @-@

he makes his own tops, he makes his own strings, he makes freestyle vids like it was nothin...............i like this man @-@
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 05, 2017, 08:45:35 PM
first let me say you are a sneeky fellow there eh, i had no idea youre that that legit skilled with a Top dear sir @-@
secondly your designs are looking awsome @-@
Thanks Jack.

thirdly what in the world is the trick at 3:42??? it looks like a variation of "joker choker" but ive never seen that done before, is there any chance you could record a close up of that??? i beg of yee dear sir, i must learn your ways, your kung fu is very strong @-@
That trick is a compact variation on Joker Choker with a little Sun thrown in. I will try and get a close up of this for you. Stay tuned.....
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 05, 2017, 09:44:41 PM
I purchased a fidget spinner from the store known as Learning Express.  It is pretty interesting but more fascinating (to me) is to watch the reactions of children around me as I spin it and do some simple tricks.  One of the best things I do is with a pencil or stem and turn the spinner into a top.  People always seem interested in that. 

The connection to this thread is the fact that this fidget spinner was obviously made on a 3D printer.  I did not notice that until I got home.  I want to go back to the store and see how many in the display were made by 3D printers (there were 40-50 in the display cases).
I have been tempted to print one of these but when my machine is busy with 18hour prints, it's hard to find the time :D
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on April 06, 2017, 12:29:27 AM
The show is FANTASTIC. All that regenerating to a triple stairway to Heaven. Amazing. The two tops play beautiful - I do like the green one better. Hopefully a dog will run off with the other one. That thing looks DUMB. ( I GOT TO BE ME ) I would like to see some 25 foot tip catches plus the double body cork screw. Can you tell me all about the line your using?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 06, 2017, 09:17:41 PM
The show is FANTASTIC. All that regenerating to a triple stairway to Heaven. Amazing. The two tops play beautiful - I do like the green one better. Hopefully a dog will run off with the other one. That thing looks DUMB. ( I GOT TO BE ME ) I would like to see some 25 foot tip catches plus the double body cork screw. Can you tell me all about the line your using?

Cecil,
Thanks for the praise and the honesty. The line I am using is made from 4 groups of (4 No 10 string). It's 3mm wide and ~92inches long.
I would beg you reconsider the appearance of the yellow top with the modifications.  :D
 
(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170406_180335.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170406_180335.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Neff on April 06, 2017, 09:40:43 PM
I just got caught up on this thread. I am so glad you have set sail on this voyage, you are the perfect person for it.  If you were an experienced wood lathe top-maker, your predisposition might shorten the process and discoveries would be missed.  I hope this is not getting too expensive for you though.  I would like to support your cause by purchasing two of those delicious tips. I pledge to check this thread more often.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 08, 2017, 12:17:25 PM
I just got caught up on this thread. I am so glad you have set sail on this voyage, you are the perfect person for it.  If you were an experienced wood lathe top-maker, your predisposition might shorten the process and discoveries would be missed.  I hope this is not getting too expensive for you though.  I would like to support your cause by purchasing two of those delicious tips. I pledge to check this thread more often.
I do agree being isolated from what's going on and  figuring things out on my own, allows for new discoveries.
Design is expensive as I am sure you are aware, but I get to tailor the tops to my taste (like cooking). As long as I am having fun I will continue to explore different ideas.
Thanks Chris for the interest. Your tips will be sent out today.

To all who purchased tips, I recommend polishing them a bit on a buffing wheel. I hope you all like them as much as I do.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 09, 2017, 05:05:34 PM
thirdly what in the world is the trick at 3:42??? it looks like a variation of "joker choker" but ive never seen that done before, is there any chance you could record a close up of that??? i beg of yee dear sir, i must learn your ways, your kung fu is very strong @-@

Here you go Jack

https://youtu.be/5ErJOgPzyCE

So Suns are at 10sec which lead to Joker Choker at 17 sec and what I call Sun Choker at 20. I include the first two tricks for reference on how I ended up doing this thing.  Hope this is what you were looking for.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on April 09, 2017, 06:38:18 PM
thirdly what in the world is the trick at 3:42??? it looks like a variation of "joker choker" but ive never seen that done before, is there any chance you could record a close up of that??? i beg of yee dear sir, i must learn your ways, your kung fu is very strong @-@

Here you go Jack

So Suns are at 10sec which lead to Joker Choker at 17 sec and what I call Sun Choker at 20. I include the first two tricks for reference on how I ended up doing this thing.  Hope this is what you were looking for.

oh my i like that @-@
thats very spiffy @-@
im gonna learn this asap @-@
well done sir!!!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on April 09, 2017, 07:31:18 PM
Sun Chokers is a legit trick! Very nice! I think it's new.
It is not easy to come up with new regen tricks, and this should be one.
Well done!  8)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on April 10, 2017, 04:46:19 PM
I love the new look. She looks like she want to dance. Thanks for the line information. I just made a new line with Chris's line rig. I love the way the driver works with the C.A glue on it. I used 4- # 3 Lydia    8 - # 10 Lydia   4 Clarks xp thread x 11 feet. Four point driver.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 10, 2017, 10:23:08 PM
oh my i like that @-@
thats very spiffy @-@
im gonna learn this asap @-@
well done sir!!!
Thanks Jack! 

Sun Chokers is a legit trick! Very nice! I think it's new.
It is not easy to come up with new regen tricks, and this should be one.
Well done!  8)

Thanks, I am happy you like it.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on April 11, 2017, 01:50:12 AM
If you don't have a 4 1/2 PURPLE HEART TOP. You don't know the meaning of LIFE.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Neff on April 11, 2017, 10:44:54 PM


I do something similar to jmadrigal's Sun Chokers, but the way he tugs from the loop in his left hand is better than my version.  I do mine here at 0:40:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQJJG4pQjEc

jmadrigal I got your tips today, they are lovely! Now I just need to make a top or two to put them in  ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 14, 2017, 04:13:02 PM
Here we go again.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170414_122102.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170414_122102.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 16, 2017, 10:01:31 PM
If your bored.....

https://youtu.be/HLRiCAskw9U
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jeremy McCreary on April 16, 2017, 10:30:39 PM
Absolutely riveting!   ;D

Actually pretty interesting to watch the top build up. Why is everything blue?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 16, 2017, 10:59:36 PM
I have seen many tops printed and I still love watching the printer go.

As far as the question. The printer is blue, I use blue painters tape for the build surface and I happen to be using blue PETG.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 21, 2017, 07:17:15 PM
I have been busy working on a new design. I would say I have about 70 hours of printing in this design dialed in. This one is based on the Spintastics Quicksilver tips. I absolutely love this top. I have made quite a few revs and settled in on about 94gms (with the tip installed). It's amazing how as little as 5gms can make a difference. The top  is 3" in diameter and works just fine with the same string as the Quicksilver. It plays relaxed like a large top but, it is maneuverable like a small top. This is keeper. 


(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170421_155629.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170421_155629.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on April 21, 2017, 07:27:24 PM
I have been busy working on a new design. I would say I have about 70 hours of printing in this design dialed in. This one is based on the Spintastics Quicksilver tips. I absolutely love this top. I have made quite a few revs and settled in on about 94gms (with the tip installed). It's amazing how as little as 5gms can make a difference. The top  is 3" in diameter and works just fine with the same string as the Quicksilver. It plays relaxed like a large top but, it is maneuverable like a small top. This is keeper. 

that is a legit beautiful design @-@
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jeremy McCreary on April 21, 2017, 07:31:30 PM
Beautiful work, too!

Love how small differences in the top itself lead to big differences in top behavior. Could you elaborate from experience with this particular top?

Would you recommend a top like this to a beginner? Sounds ideal in some ways, but perhaps only for a skilled player like you.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 21, 2017, 09:20:00 PM
Beautiful work, too!

Love how small differences in the top itself lead to big differences in top behavior. Could you elaborate from experience with this particular top?

Would you recommend a top like this to a beginner? Sounds ideal in some ways, but perhaps only for a skilled player like you.
Thanks!
I was extremely surprised how the small difference in weight mattered to me. There is a fine balance between too heavy (now I need a thicker string) and too light that I can't regenerate how I want. On a side note, I think that a tip has an ideal string thickness that complements it. This is all very subjective, but I feel like a cook, and I am salting the food the way I like it.

Would I recommend this top to a beginner? The answer is yes, and this is my long answer why ;)
I am isolated from civilization, because I live in an unhospitable environment (near the Mohave desert). Needless to say there isn't a top spinner for hundreds of miles. For the last 5 years, I have been organizing a local beer "tasking" group in my town. Ever since I went hard core into tops, I thought a battle top completion would be a great event for our tastings. I had all the members in our group ( eight of us) buy short circuits, and they had a blast. Since last fall, we have had two completions, and we even have a roving trophy. Since all my friends are new to tops, I had to teach them all the basics.

One of my friends has earned his 8 trick patch and another is one trick away from his. As soon as I played with my new creation, I thought of my friends who are budding spinners. Since the top spins slower, like a big top, it gives you more time to think. I gave a beta version to my friend, who just earned his eight trick patch, and he was able to start doing a few roller coasters. This isn't a comic book offering the antidote to the skinny kid on the beach, getting sand kicked in his face. I am merely saying that if you are serious about spinning, this top will give you more time which helps. Although for an advanced player, I feel that this top could open doors. It has for me. I love it.


Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on April 22, 2017, 12:19:52 AM
Wonderful top, fantastic work behind it and a wonderful story about converting others into top spinners!
Super-great job!!!  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Neff on April 22, 2017, 12:43:14 AM
This is such a great thread, thank you.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jeremy McCreary on April 22, 2017, 04:36:49 PM
Thanks!
I was extremely surprised how the small difference in weight mattered to me. There is a fine balance between too heavy (now I need a thicker string) and too light that I can't regenerate how I want. On a side note, I think that a tip has an ideal string thickness that complements it. This is all very subjective, but I feel like a cook, and I am salting the food the way I like it....

Love that salt line. As a rank beginner at throwing tops, I found the story quite inspirational.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on April 22, 2017, 05:15:07 PM
The new top looks FANTASTIC. How much would one of these tops sell for? If you sold them? I told Dale at Spintastic, he should make the Trompo Granda in a four inch style. I think he said the mold would cost $ 40.000 ? I'm a retired Machinist and I hate mold making. I have about 25 large trick tops that I have made new strings for, only three more to go. I haven't been able to get to the shop for thee months now - and I miss making tops and tips. I can't find any top throwers in San Jose. Pop top and Spin queen live about 30 miles away and I haven't seen them in two years.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 23, 2017, 12:36:26 AM
The new top looks FANTASTIC. How much would one of these tops sell for? If you sold them? I told Dale at Spintastic, he should make the Trompo Granda in a four inch style. I think he said the mold would cost $ 40.000 ? I'm a retired Machinist and I hate mold making. I have about 25 large trick tops that I have made new strings for, only three more to go. I haven't been able to get to the shop for thee months now - and I miss making tops and tips. I can't find any top throwers in San Jose. Pop top and Spin queen live about 30 miles away and I haven't seen them in two years.
Thanks Cecil,
People have shown interest in these tops so I need to find a good answer to the price question. Printing is a finikey buisness. I had a 10 hour print fail on me today due to a clogged nozzle. 
I uploaded this design to an online manufacturer so I could see what they would charge for an ABS print. They quoted me $157 for the 3inch diameter top. I also uploaded my 4.5inch design and they quoted over $400.  :(
I wouldn't mind making a small run of this top to raise some money for my Iceland trip. I would just have to find a reasonable price point.
It would be great to injection mold a large top ,but molds are expensive. There probly isn't a large enough market for that to work either.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170422_155303.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170422_155303.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 23, 2017, 08:38:49 AM
Over the next week I will be printing some tops that I will make available. I will post pictures of the tops after they are made. I am thinking about 8 to 10 tops in this run so it will take me a bit. As I posted earlier I was quoted $157 to print this top but I think that could be better. I think that this run will be priced at $80ea shipped.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 25, 2017, 09:31:28 PM
Here are the first two I am sending out tomorrow.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170423_133619.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170423_133619.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on April 25, 2017, 11:15:43 PM
What is the diameter of the top please. And $ 80.00 is a great price. If I had money ( RETIRED ) I would order two. If I made four inch hallow tops for sale I would charge at least $ 350.00. If you want something nice pay the price. Or make it your self. OR DO WITHOUT.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: studio42 on April 26, 2017, 04:30:34 AM
I think those quoted prices are reflective of the state of the technology. It's been around long enough where it's no longer bleeding or even leading edge anymore. I think until places can find ways to get their "rapid prototyping" technology prices a lot lower, I don't see places budging for a few years.

This sure does beat the cost of a mold. Your logic is sound though. The scale and demand isn't there to justify such costs. At the same time, I think your work here in the world of printed precision skill toys is really good for proving that it can be done and done properly.

I wouldn't mind paying $80 for one of those models. I'd have to wait until after BAC either way.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 28, 2017, 09:09:54 PM
What is the diameter of the top please. And $ 80.00 is a great price. If I had money ( RETIRED ) I would order two. If I made four inch hallow tops for sale I would charge at least $ 350.00. If you want something nice pay the price. Or make it your self. OR DO WITHOUT.
Cecil,
Just saw your question. The $80 top is 3" in diameter. I like this size because it feels like a large top but still plays a nimble as a small top. It takes about 10 hours to print so it ties up the machine for a bit. I also include some string and a printed button.
I would have to charge around $200 for a 4.5" diameter top. They take well over 20 hours to print which makes the potential for a failed print even higher. I have had about 3 to 4 failed prints (tops I wouldn't sell because of print quality) in the 3" size. No fun! Waste time and material, but they become my players if it's just cosmetic.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on April 28, 2017, 09:16:25 PM
I wouldn't mind paying $80 for one of those models. I'd have to wait until after BAC either way.
Just hit me up when you can. If people are interested and like the tops I make, I will try to accommodate.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: lincolnrick on May 06, 2017, 01:17:07 PM
This arrived at my house lately. What a fine top this is. I shall play it with care until I can fortify it?

Thank you JMardrigal for a sweet spin.


(http://thumb.ibb.co/j7dkkk/C_KNFmu_Ws_AAdbh_L_jpg_large.jpg) (http://ibb.co/j7dkkk)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: studio42 on May 06, 2017, 02:53:52 PM
This arrived at my house lately. What a fine top this is. I shall play it with care until I can fortify it?

Thank you JMardrigal for a sweet spin.



My internet is slow today, but it was worth the time it took to load up the full sized picture. That looks really nice.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on May 06, 2017, 03:08:17 PM
This arrived at my house lately. What a fine top this is. I shall play it with care until I can fortify it?

Thank you JMardrigal for a sweet spin.
The crown is the most delicate part of the top. I haven't had issues but if you hit the crown you can delaminate it. I increased the size of the crown to help strengthen it. If it delaminates it can be fixed, but I recommend dipping the crown in clear epoxy(I used Gorilla brand). I tried it on a couple of the tops and I think this will protect the sensitive area from damage. I usually only play on grass or carpet to protect the tips anyway.
(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170506_115258.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170506_115258.jpg.html)
You are welcome for the top. I pretty much have only played with this design since I made it. It's the top I used in this video.   
https://youtu.be/e71rpHvr12A
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: the Earl of Whirl on May 06, 2017, 03:32:30 PM
Wow!  Lots of good spinning in lots of good places.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on May 06, 2017, 11:16:19 PM
So after many months of not having my larger printer, it's finally back and running. Now I am able to try ideas I have been wanting to print for a while. Here is my update to the 4.5" top. It has a few upgrades. The shoulder around the crown is a 45deg angle so it prints nice. I added a weight ring feature to the inside. This allows the insertion of up to two rings, to add extra weight around the widest part of the top. It comes in at 202gm without a weight ring inserted. I am using plastic coated steel cable for the weight ring. You can find this at Home Depot. I am making more of this one.

http://(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170506_110005.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170506_110005.jpg.html)

http://(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170506_104253.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170506_104253.jpg.html)

http://(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170506_104320.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170506_104320.jpg.html)

http://(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170506_104348.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170506_104348.jpg.html)

http://(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170506_105206.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170506_105206.jpg.html)

Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on May 07, 2017, 01:22:30 AM
I don't like the looks of the 45 degree top - but they play better to me. Why? Because you can use a thinner string. And that adds SPEED - and SPEED is GOOD. Myself I like a 13 oz. top.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jeremy McCreary on May 07, 2017, 01:01:08 PM
My beautiful yellow 3" came signed and dated inside by the master! Don't have much basis for comparison, but I love the shape and feel and heft. The fine outer surface texture reminds me of a diffraction grating. It's nice to the touch and gives the top an interesting sheen in the right light. Guessing it might be good for string traction, too.

As an erratic throw-top beginner, I should probably play it safe and give mine the epoxy treatment. Can't wait to play it, but Plan A is to hold off till I can boomerang the already beat-up Saturno Larry kindly sent me. Upright landings are still hit-and-miss, and unlike you guys, I can't bet on soft landings.  :P

Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on May 07, 2017, 03:33:29 PM
I don't like the looks of the 45 degree top - but they play better to me. Why? Because you can use a thinner string. And that adds SPEED - and SPEED is GOOD. Myself I like a 13 oz. top.
Cecil,
You are a tough customer ;)

My beautiful yellow 3" came signed and dated inside by the master! Don't have much basis for comparison, but I love the shape and feel and heft. The fine outer surface texture reminds me of a diffraction grating. It's nice to the touch and gives the top an interesting sheen in the right light. Guessing it might be good for string traction, too.

As an erratic throw-top beginner, I should probably play it safe and give mine the epoxy treatment. Can't wait to play it, but Plan A is to hold off till I can boomerang the already beat-up Saturno Larry kindly sent me. Upright landings are still hit-and-miss, and unlike you guys, I can't bet on soft landings.  :P
Jeremy,
If you have any issues with the crown just let me know and we will get you taken care of.


Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: mailman on May 07, 2017, 07:18:51 PM
I'm interested in doing the epoxy treatment to the crown of mine, also.  Is there any other detail you can offer about the product or the process?  Any tips, tricks, or things I need to know?

Thanks for the help, the great service, and the beautiful top....
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on May 07, 2017, 08:16:56 PM
I'm interested in doing the epoxy treatment to the crown of mine, also.  Is there any other detail you can offer about the product or the process?  Any tips, tricks, or things I need to know?

Thanks for the help, the great service, and the beautiful top....
I used Gorilla Epoxy.
https://www.amazon.com/Gorilla-Epoxy-85-oz-Clear/dp/B001Z3C3AG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494202413&sr=8-1&keywords=gorilla+epoxy (https://www.amazon.com/Gorilla-Epoxy-85-oz-Clear/dp/B001Z3C3AG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494202413&sr=8-1&keywords=gorilla+epoxy)
I just mix and use a popsicle stick to cover the crown. I hang it upside down while it dries. That's about it. Let me know if you have questions.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: mailman on May 07, 2017, 08:35:10 PM
Thanks, I think we carry that at the store where I work.  I'll pick some up tomorrow....
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on May 08, 2017, 12:07:59 AM
La Bella has the 45 deg. shape. Plays nice but I don't like the looks of her shape. I would put a paper bag over her while tricking but the paper flutters.
https://youtu.be/rUU4pH8EZjQ
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on May 08, 2017, 12:19:26 AM
La Bella has the 45 deg. shape. Plays nice but I don't like the looks of shape. I would put a paper bag over her while tricking but the paper flutters.
But you call her La Bella, young man!  ;D
It does play well. It was great that you had an appreciating public.

By the way, we will be announcing soon an ITSA raffle and one of the prizes will be a very nice 3-D printed purple top from jmadrigal. Thanks Jose!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Neff on May 08, 2017, 07:56:22 AM
I am especially excited about the 4.5" top because there are so few larger tops available other than what Watts and a few others have made. I make some but my production is woefully slow the last several years.

I like the steel cable idea, will you be selling them separate or is this a suggested mod?  I have never had a good pair of snips for steel cable, might be time to invest.

Such good work sir, I am am very impressed
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: mailman on May 08, 2017, 08:16:36 AM
I don't like the looks of the 45 degree top - but they play better to me. Why? Because you can use a thinner string. And that adds SPEED - and SPEED is GOOD. Myself I like a 13 oz. top.

Cecil, I think the 45 degree part you are thinking of is from the widest part down to the tip.

I think the 45 degree part jmadrigal is referring to is from the widest part up to the crown.

I can tell you from experience that this top plays beautifully....
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on May 08, 2017, 02:49:30 PM
I know the shape plays good, I just don't like the LOOKS. I like the HEART shape better. I also know groves in a top can give you trouble. When you try to make the thinnest line for your top - you learn a lot about the shapes of different tops. It's all just FUN.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on May 08, 2017, 09:18:47 PM
Cecil, I think the 45 degree part you are thinking of is from the widest part down to the tip.
I think the 45 degree part jmadrigal is referring to is from the widest part up to the crown.
Yup, I am talking about the feature around the crown. Printers have their strengths and weaknesses. One weak point is their difficulty with overhangs. I have learned that making your overhangs 45deg gives a nice print.

I also know groves in a top can give you trouble. 
What trouble do you get? If your referring to the layers in the printed top, they have not given me a problem. I have actually sanded one down to get a smother finish but I prefer the natural finish of the top.

I am especially excited about the 4.5" top because there are so few larger tops available other than what Watts and a few others have made. I make some but my production is woefully slow the last several years.

I like the steel cable idea, will you be selling them separate or is this a suggested mod?  I have never had a good pair of snips for steel cable, might be time to invest.

Such good work sir, I am am very impressed
Thanks Chris, I am exited about this top my self.
The cable mod would just be for this new top since I added the feature to hold the cable in place.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on July 02, 2017, 08:25:32 PM
Designed a new cap to mod my Quicksilver and Trompo Grande. I am liking it a lot. It adds about 6gms of weight which I really like in the Trompo Grande. It feels turbo charged :) It's nice to be able to store the string as well. I designed it so it snaps in snug so no more tape.
(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170702_133009.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170702_133009.jpg.html)
(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170702_133038.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170702_133038.jpg.html)
(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170702_133148.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170702_133148.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: mailman on July 02, 2017, 09:46:13 PM
That's cool, Jose!  I'm betting you could sell a bunch of those....
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on July 02, 2017, 11:33:53 PM
Great!

I reminds me when I found (actually my son Diego did) that the cap of a YYJ Bulldog top fitted a Spintastics Hollow Point: it made a great top!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: studio42 on July 03, 2017, 02:54:54 PM
No tape and snaps in?

I better start counting my QSH and Trompo tops.....

They look nice as well.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on July 04, 2017, 11:47:26 AM
That's cool, Jose!  I'm betting you could sell a bunch of those....
I am still fine tuning but once I have it I would be happy to make some available.

Great!

I reminds me when I found (actually my son Diego did) that the cap of a YYJ Bulldog top fitted a Spintastics Hollow Point: it made a great top!
Modifying existing tops is always fun.

No tape and snaps in?

I better start counting my QSH and Trompo tops.....

They look nice as well.
Thanks
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Sabaspin on July 05, 2017, 09:31:34 PM
Nice mod! Especially for the trompo grande.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on July 06, 2017, 12:41:07 AM
No. Time to buy a wood lathe a make a 4 1/2 PURPLE HEART TROMPO. And make it light, that wood is heavy like ZEBRA. Go for it while your still young.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on July 11, 2017, 12:47:45 AM
Designed a new cap to mod my Quicksilver and Trompo Grande. I am liking it a lot. It adds about 6gms of weight which I really like in the Trompo Grande. It feels turbo charged :) It's nice to be able to store the string as well. I designed it so it snaps in snug so no more tape.

thaaaaaaaat is spiffy  :o the angles are very nice
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on July 15, 2017, 12:41:06 PM
Designed a sticker and put together some packaging for this top for fun.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170702_134107.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170702_134107.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170702_134234.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170702_134234.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: mailman on July 15, 2017, 03:33:24 PM
Very classy!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on July 15, 2017, 06:24:37 PM
Nice!

I say somebody is ready to start his own spintop company  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jeremy McCreary on July 15, 2017, 07:14:15 PM
I like the logo, Jose. What's the significance of "Relampago" here?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on July 15, 2017, 07:46:39 PM
Such a beautiful top. And I think the best metal lathe to buy is a Henderson with a 5C chuck. You can cut wood or metal. I did see a nice used on for $ 12,000. but you might find one around $ 4,000.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on July 15, 2017, 10:45:25 PM
Very classy!
Thanks Don.

Nice!

I say somebody is ready to start his own spintop company  :)
A top company is a dream but if I can offer something unique, I will be happy to do what I can. Yoyo company's have new releases every week and I thought it would be great to have something new for the top world.

I like the logo, Jose. What's the significance of "Relampago" here?
Jeremy,
Relampago just means lightning and I liked the ring of it. Lightning in a bottle is what I was thinking. I was born in Mexico so that also was a factor.

Such a beautiful top. And I think the best metal lathe to buy is a Henderson with a 5C chuck. You can cut wood or metal. I did see a nice used on for $ 12,000. but you might find one around $ 4,000.
Cecil,
I think I will have to come visit you next year and you will have to teach me how to turn :)


Also to anyone that has purchased a top I will send you a couple stickers in the coming week. Thank you!

Jose
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on July 16, 2017, 03:14:43 AM
Sounds good Jeremy. I would like to see what you can do with the tops I've made.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jeremy McCreary on July 16, 2017, 11:31:33 AM
Sounds good Jeremy. I would like to see what you can do with the tops I've made.
I think that was for Jose.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: MatiasStuntMan on July 17, 2017, 03:33:13 PM
Jose the Lightning McQueen!!! I want one!!!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Mermouy on July 18, 2017, 05:46:05 AM
Whoa, because you can now find and use 3d printing almost anywhere, any chances to get the files used in this project? Would be so much cheaper to send across the world...
Of course if the project lead you to create your own spintop brand I would understand...
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on July 18, 2017, 02:15:08 PM
Whoa, because you can now find and use 3d printing almost anywhere, any chances to get the files used in this project? Would be so much cheaper to send across the world...
Of course if the project lead you to create your own spintop brand I would understand...
While 3D printing is more available it isn't quite a plug and play process. It also isn't cheep from my last check. I mentioned in an earlier post that I was quoted over 150 for the 3" top I make. I am selling them for 80 shipped with custom sting, button and even include stickers. This is my attempt to make the technology accessible while making it worth it to me and fun.
I will not be sharing files to tops I am selling but I could share an earlier smaller version that would be a good first crack at this. I have already shared it with Jim from Paris a few months ago.
Printing larger tops isn't easy and I have many failures to prove it but I think the performance you can get is hard to beat.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on July 18, 2017, 03:03:42 PM
I think $ 80. for a three inch top is a great price.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Mermouy on July 20, 2017, 05:41:04 AM
That sounds great! I think it could be a nice addition to our festivals, a booth with a 3d printer creating tops could be a nice and interesting animation...
And I will definitely be one of your customers what's about colors do you have different available wires?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on July 20, 2017, 08:58:58 PM
That sounds great! I think it could be a nice addition to our festivals, a booth with a 3d printer creating tops could be a nice and interesting animation...
And I will definitely be one of your customers what's about colors do you have different available wires?
Here is what I have for tops. Also some of the strings I have made. Send me a pm if your interested.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170720_174748.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170720_174748.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170720_174814.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170720_174814.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Neff on July 20, 2017, 11:08:42 PM
Well done sir!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on July 21, 2017, 02:26:44 AM
The tops and strings look great. I hope you can sell a lot of them. It's time to get BIG, and get outside. SO MUCH FUN.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: the Earl of Whirl on July 21, 2017, 09:42:20 PM
Beautiful colors and beautiful work.  I love the pictures!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: mailman on July 21, 2017, 11:54:19 PM
Stickers arrived in the mail today!  Thanks, Jose!!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: lincolnrick on July 22, 2017, 11:45:21 AM
Stickers arrived in the mail today!  Thanks, Jose!!

Mine too! Thanks again Jose!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on July 28, 2017, 09:43:27 AM
Fresh off the printer is this 4.5" diameter blue top. Thinking of making a few of these available in the future if people are interested.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170728_063528.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170728_063528.jpg.html)
(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/1501249097027884380543.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/1501249097027884380543.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Diz on July 28, 2017, 02:42:42 PM
Fantastic work!
I'm trying to figure out your string. Is it a right twist over a left?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on July 28, 2017, 05:55:41 PM
Fantastic work!
I'm trying to figure out your string. Is it a right twist over a left?
Thanks.
The sting is made the usual way. You can create patterns by mixing up strings in each of the four main strands. Each of the main strands is made from 4 #10 cotton strings.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Mermouy on July 29, 2017, 10:09:42 AM
Sure!!! It's exactly the kind of top I'm looking for to use it in my street show!!!
Give me a sign when it's available!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on August 05, 2017, 04:59:49 PM
Sure!!! It's exactly the kind of top I'm looking for to use it in my street show!!!
Give me a sign when it's available!
I will be in touch after worlds.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on August 05, 2017, 05:01:43 PM
Something new and exciting. A nylon top!
I will be taking this along to worlds.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170805_123612.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170805_123612.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170805_123640.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170805_123640.jpg.html)

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170805_123651.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170805_123651.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Mermouy on August 06, 2017, 06:36:21 AM
A quick question : what led system are you using? I was looking for in fishing system but your system looks pretty compact and useful?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on August 06, 2017, 02:25:19 PM
A quick question : what led system are you using? I was looking for in fishing system but your system looks pretty compact and useful?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C1OG3WQ?psc=1
I found these party LED light for paper lanterns and balloons. They are small and cheep. They seem to work well so far.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: mailman on August 06, 2017, 10:08:53 PM
A quick question : what led system are you using? I was looking for in fishing system but your system looks pretty compact and useful?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C1OG3WQ?psc=1
I found these party LED light for paper lanterns and balloons. They are small and cheep. They seem to work well so far.

Did you 3D print the bar that mounts the lights?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on August 07, 2017, 11:22:37 AM
Did you 3D print the bar that mounts the lights?
I sure did. They press in nice and tight . I can reach in with my fingers to shut them off.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: mailman on August 07, 2017, 12:41:10 PM
Way. Too. Cool.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: the Earl of Whirl on August 07, 2017, 01:19:07 PM
 Very nice!!!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on August 20, 2017, 02:47:01 PM
Acetone finish on 4.5" top. Comes out with a wet look.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20170820_113737.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20170820_113737.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jatt on August 20, 2017, 11:15:07 PM
Looks Rad!! Does the slick surface ever mess with the throw of the top? 
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on August 21, 2017, 09:24:08 PM
Looks Rad!! Does the slick surface ever mess with the throw of the top? 
Thanks Jatt.
This is the first top I have tried this on. I don't mind the surface straight off the printer but thought I would give the acetone treatment a shot. I love the slick look of it. I haven't noticed any issues with the throw. I will definitely do this again.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on August 21, 2017, 10:16:23 PM
Acetone finish on 4.5" top. Comes out with a wet look.

oh my god its so beautiful
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on August 22, 2017, 07:56:00 AM
Looks like a great finish for your tops! I love how you are experimenting and improving them all the time.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Shootist on August 26, 2017, 11:23:49 PM
I really like the finish of the top. Very Nice Job.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on August 26, 2017, 11:50:18 PM
Nice. But it's time to buy a wood lathe. And make the most BEAUTIFUL TOPS IN THE WORLD.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on August 27, 2017, 09:38:33 AM
I really like the finish of the top. Very Nice Job.
Thanks!

Nice. But it's time to buy a wood lathe. And make the most BEAUTIFUL TOPS IN THE WORLD.
I think you must work for a lathe company ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jatt on September 22, 2017, 10:36:24 PM
hey jmadrigal love seeing new posts of your 3D printed tops. i was wonder what kind of spin time you have been getting on your tops?
And whats the biggest top you have 3D printer? i have been really itching to get a large top into my collection thats fun to throw and play. hoping to get some insight from everyone on playing large tops too. like whats too big for playing and what kind of material? sorry for all the questions all at once. just young in my top spinning and dreaming of what my next top might be. ill just go throw some tops to curve my itch.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on September 23, 2017, 09:25:14 PM
hey jmadrigal love seeing new posts of your 3D printed tops. i was wonder what kind of spin time you have been getting on your tops?
And whats the biggest top you have 3D printer? i have been really itching to get a large top into my collection thats fun to throw and play. hoping to get some insight from everyone on playing large tops too. like whats too big for playing and what kind of material? sorry for all the questions all at once. just young in my top spinning and dreaming of what my next top might be. ill just go throw some tops to curve my itch.
Jatt,
I have not clocked my spin time but it is long. The tops are extremely stable so they stay up for a long time.
The largest top I have made is about 5.5" diameter. I have settled in on a 4.5" size as my favorite so far. I use ABS for my large tops since its lighter and strong.
I like my 4.5" tops around 200 to 220 grams. I feel this is a good weight so I can do more technical tricks with this large top. Others I am sure will have different opinions but this is mine. I always try to improve my designs and only sell the ones I feel are the best. Let me know if you need anything. I currently have one 4.5" top ready to ship and a few 3" tops as well. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Jose
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Kirk on September 25, 2017, 02:45:58 PM
I have been far behind in reading this thread (and others too).  I finally took a long lunch to catch up.
Right now my first 3" top printed of at 52% on the printer. It will probably be a bit light at 56g with a "C" tip.
It is heart shaped but modified so the overhang is 31.5 deg transitioning to quickly to a steeper angle.  This section has printed cleanly.
More news later.

I like the steel cable idea, will you be selling them separate or is this a suggested mod?  I have never had a good pair of snips for steel cable, might be time to invest.
Chris,  You can use a Dremel with a cut of wheel to get a clean cut.  Wrap with paper tape and go slow.
Jose, this is a great idea!


Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Kirk on September 25, 2017, 05:31:24 PM
Printed!  I pounded in a C tip while still warm.
The slicer software put the start of the shell for each layer in the same spot. I guess that is why it shakes so.
Yes, 56 g is pretty light. I had run after my first boomerang. :)

Questions for Jose:
I know that you use 100% infill. How many shells do you set? (2 is the default)
Does that help with durability and/or balance?
Are you making a thicker wall section at the (frangible) crown?
Thanks for sharing so generously. My first 3" top is not perfect but can be counted as a playable and fun success.




Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: mailman on September 25, 2017, 10:17:39 PM
Kirk, I'm glad to hear your first printed top was successful!  May we see pictures?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on September 25, 2017, 10:47:41 PM
Questions for Jose:
I know that you use 100% infill. How many shells do you set? (2 is the default)
Does that help with durability and/or balance?
Are you making a thicker wall section at the (frangible) crown?
Thanks for sharing so generously. My first 3" top is not perfect but can be counted as a playable and fun success.
Congrats on your top.
I use a 2mm shell for strength and add mass around the widest part for stability.
Please post a picture.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: cecil on September 27, 2017, 02:38:33 PM
I can be in Modesto, with a lot of tops on the weekend of the Chico contest.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 15, 2017, 02:01:58 PM
A teaser for a new project ;)
https://youtu.be/9mHUPAIqt1M
https://youtu.be/hlL8jQ9phGE
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on October 17, 2017, 01:53:40 AM
A teaser for a new project ;)

how
did
you
do
that!??!?!?!?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 18, 2017, 10:02:32 PM
A teaser for a new project ;)

how
did
you
do
that!??!?!?!?

I am using a sensor to monitor the movement and change the color accordingly. I will have more information once I get it further along. I think it's exciting.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jeremy McCreary on October 19, 2017, 02:47:07 AM
I am using a sensor to monitor the movement and change the color accordingly. I will have more information once I get it further along. I think it's exciting.

I find the alternative theory -- that you're a sorcerer -- just as plausible. The way you make throwing tops look so easy is evidence enough. These lighted tops only add to the suspicion.

I've been fooling around with light-emitting LEGO finger tops for play in the dark for over a year now and have thoroughly enjoyed it. (In my case, the light comes from fluorescent parts that glow under blacklight.) I love the visual effects -- especially the virtual surfaces and colors created via the persistence of vision -- and enjoy designing tops specifically to make spinning 3D light shows. The clip below shows an example of what can be done when virtual surfaces and color mixing combine. (You'll get the point from 2:37 to 4:57.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG-szSIt84A&t=2m37s

Strikes me that someone with your talent might develop tricks to take advantage of such effects.

Addendum: You could also turn on multiple colors at once inside the top to get some internal color mixing -- e.g., red + blue + green goes to white, or red + green goes to yellow when you spin the top. Since light-mixing rather than paint-mixing rules apply, many in your audience won't be expecting the color changes they'll see.


Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: BeauB on October 20, 2017, 08:58:13 PM
I got a green 3d printed one at u.s. national yoyo contest and love it. Play with it all the time  ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: the Earl of Whirl on October 20, 2017, 11:52:54 PM
Could this be my old friend who attended some top fests in Miamisburg with his family from Kentucky?  This is the old white haired man with the microphone!!!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on October 21, 2017, 01:32:22 AM
Could this be my old friend who attended some top fests in Miamisburg with his family from Kentucky?  This is the old white haired man with the microphone!!!
I made the same mistake when people mentioned a player named Beau at nats. This in not Beau C., aka runBMC, but Beau B.

Welcome to the board, Beau!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jack on October 22, 2017, 01:45:54 AM
I got a green 3d printed one at u.s. national yoyo contest and love it. Play with it all the time  ;D

welcome home sir @-@
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 22, 2017, 01:12:25 PM
Jeremy,
Lighted tops are fun. Your florescent Lego tops are really cool to watch.

I got a green 3d printed one at u.s. national yoyo contest and love it. Play with it all the time  ;D

Beau,
Glad you like the top. It was great hanging out with you in Chico. You should compete next time.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: paxl13 on October 30, 2017, 08:29:15 AM
Hey guys, I was wondering if you were willing to share the 3d model of the tops you printed that works well ? My father did print one that was on thingiverse but it's awful.. it's way too much top heavy. I have to play more but except throwing it with the string wrapped to the top it's impossible to boomerang or anyting !


(http://thumb.ibb.co/doJ2mR/2017_10_30_08_26_07.jpg) (http://ibb.co/doJ2mR)


Anyway thanks in advance
paxl

Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 31, 2017, 03:27:12 PM
Hello Paxle13,
What printer are you using?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 31, 2017, 07:51:16 PM
Cool top toy on Thingiverse.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2579345

https://youtu.be/Tho966id2oY
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: mailman on October 31, 2017, 10:16:46 PM
Jose, as our resident expert on 3D printed tops, I'll direct this question to you:

Where should I start in finding 3D printed top designs?  I will be taking an orientation class a week from today at our public library.  They have a 3D printer that the public can use, if one has taken this class.  As a user of the machine, one pays ten cents per gram of materials used.

I'm not much of a computer geek, and know nothing of computer code.  Ideally, I'd like to start with smaller projects, like buttons, for instance, or perhaps new crowns for my Spintastics QSHs.  Then, later, I like to try to make some tops.

How much do I need to know, or where is such information available?

Thanks for any advice you can offer....
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Diz on October 31, 2017, 10:45:38 PM
Can 3D printers print in more than one color at once? For example could you print out a top with the classic spiral pattern on it (or in this case in it?)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on October 31, 2017, 11:15:58 PM
Jose, as our resident expert on 3D printed tops, I'll direct this question to you:

Where should I start in finding 3D printed top designs?  I will be taking an orientation class a week from today at our public library.  They have a 3D printer that the public can use, if one has taken this class.  As a user of the machine, one pays ten cents per gram of materials used.

I'm not much of a computer geek, and know nothing of computer code.  Ideally, I'd like to start with smaller projects, like buttons, for instance, or perhaps new crowns for my Spintastics QSHs.  Then, later, I like to try to make some tops.

How much do I need to know, or where is such information available?

Thanks for any advice you can offer....
Good to hear your going to print some stuff. I don't know of any place to get a decent top so that's why I make my own. I will send you a pm when I have a bit more time.
Jose

Can 3D printers print in more than one color at once? For example could you print out a top with the classic spiral pattern on it (or in this case in it?)
Yes Diz, it is possible to print in multiple colors. There might be machines out there that can mix materials at the same time but I don't know off hand. For printers that consumers can afford there are few options. There is the Prusa machine that is about 1100 for the machine with four color option.
https://youtu.be/KpcH74DXyy0

There is also this one but it is a bit more money :o
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Dragon-BDFPKH1728-B-FirePrint-Business/dp/B01BLAKF16
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on November 01, 2017, 11:05:36 AM
Cool top toy on Thingiverse.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2579345
Very nice! Not only because it's very top related and functional, but because the video shows all the design steps on Autodesk Fusion.

He makes the trigger and the pin as separate parts. I understand that the pin needs to be printed with the layers parallel to the length for strength but I don't understand why the trigger plate couldn't have been printed in the same direction.
EDIT: I thought a little more about this, and perhaps the trigger plate is also stronger when printed this way, as the horizontal force of the pin wouldn't tend to delaminate it.

Of course, a better design would have been a hollow top ;)

Can 3D printers print in more than one color at once? For example could you print out a top with the classic spiral pattern on it (or in this case in it?)
With a spiral, you have two colors on every single layer. So, unless the printer changes colors on the fly, it would slow down the printer (like the Prussa machine) a lot. There are some expensive (industrial) machines that can do that.



Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Renee on November 01, 2017, 01:32:02 PM
That's pretty cool.  Makes me wish I had a 3D printer.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jeremy McCreary on November 01, 2017, 03:55:28 PM
Cool top toy on Thingiverse.

Cool top starter! I've made many a starter for my LEGO tops -- some electric, some spring-powered, most hand-powered -- but never a rubber band-powered starter.

Off to make a LEGO top and starter using this launch method....
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: Jeremy McCreary on November 01, 2017, 04:21:45 PM
Hey guys, I was wondering if you were willing to share the 3d model of the tops you printed that works well ? My father did print one that was on thingiverse but it's awful.. it's way too much top heavy. I have to play more but except throwing it with the string wrapped to the top it's impossible to boomerang or anyting !

Can't speak to the 3D printing part, but I do see some design issues.

1. Agree, the top looks "top heavy". More specifically, the "aspect ratio" given by

A = (max radius height when top is vertical) / (max radius)

looks too large for a throwing top. Increasing A increases any top's responsiveness while decreasing its ability to hold an axis. The designer has to play this trade-off carefully.

2. Increasing A also increases a top's "critical speed" (above which the top is stable on its tip), and that can really cut into spin time.

3. The kind of surface roughness I see in the photo can add dramatically to the top's total aerodynamic drag. Increasing total drag can greatly reduce spin time in 2 different ways: (i) Drag is a major contributor to spin decay rate after release from the starter -- fingers, string, etc. (ii) For some starters, drag can also be the main limit on release speed.

My experience with LEGO finger tops is consistent with all of the above. The same should be true of throwing tops.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: studio42 on November 01, 2017, 06:32:23 PM

Of course, a better design would have been a hollow top ;)


It was semi-hollow. He had an internal waffle/honeycomb kind of pattern thing inside to give strength to the threaded area. I'm sure if he did the top as a single part instead of two it would have had the results more like what you think it should have. I also think in this case, the two-part design allowed him to better control how he wanted the weight as well as keep the somewhat mechanical parts in the crown(the ratcheting portion and the hook for the rubber band) able to be replaced when and if they break as opposed to trashing the whole top.

It looked bulky and heavy to me. Then again I'm more concerned about the acrobatic tops we're all throwing.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 03, 2017, 09:52:59 PM
So I gave the top gun a go. It came out Ok but I wasn't satisfied.
(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20171103_183816.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20171103_183816.jpg.html)

So I made it bigger! This would make Dirty Harry proud. :'(
(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20171103_183828.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20171103_183828.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: mailman on November 03, 2017, 10:40:03 PM
Very cool!  Can that top be played with a string?  Boomeranged?

Somehow I suspect you must have tried it.... ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on November 04, 2017, 01:02:21 AM
Fantastic!  8)

No doubt 3D printing is a revolution!
The pin that holds the rubber band to the top on my vintage Whirl a Top broke some time ago. It can still be used (the rubber band wrapping over itself stays put) but it's not the same. With 3D printers if something breaks you just print it again!

(http://ta0.com/museum/images/miscellaneous/whirl-a-top.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 05, 2017, 07:46:26 AM
Very cool!  Can that top be played with a string?  Boomeranged?

Somehow I suspect you must have tried it.... ;D
Yes it can. Not a bad shape but a bit of vibration due to the three piece design (I think). Not noticeable at lower speeds.

Cool gun ta0. Didn't know this type of gun commercially available. 3D printing is great for making new parts when something fails.
The larger top took me a couple tries. Got a clogged tip about 8 hours in. The smaller gun took three tries to get a usable part. Every new part is a learning process.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: ta0 on November 05, 2017, 02:48:22 PM
Cool gun ta0. Didn't know this type of gun commercially available.
You can see that rubber band top gun in action on the second collective video at 5:37.
youtube.com/watch?time_continue=337&v=7cDHDXtu5Yg (http://youtube.com/watch?time_continue=337&v=7cDHDXtu5Yg)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: paxl13 on November 16, 2017, 09:16:30 PM
Hi y'all, it's my father printer. He printed a couple of throw top but nothing really came out proper. There is the tip problem too! I have to start trying to make some design. I've shot an pm to jmadrigal to see if he can start me off!

Thanks a lot
paxl
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 17, 2017, 01:12:18 PM
Paxl13,
I am glad you want to get started printing. Depending on your experience i would recomend printing something simple to start. I would get some cad software and try making somthing simple to print. Google Sketchup is free. I am happy to help and give sugestions to help you on your way.
With that said, I do not share designs that I sell. I could send you one of my earlier designs but part of the power of printing is customizing your tops to your playing style.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: paxl13 on November 17, 2017, 01:14:36 PM
Oki make sence, Do you still sell tips ?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 17, 2017, 04:23:03 PM
I have sold out of tips but plan to make more Or only after Christmas. I will give a heads up on this thread when I get more in.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Top
Post by: jmadrigal on November 17, 2017, 07:21:51 PM
I was printing this and noticed the lumpy finish. At first I thought it was a clogged nozzle but after some consideration decided it could be overextrusion or to low retraction. Since the lumpyness was consistent I figured it was over extrusion. I was able to change the extrusion rate to 95% mid print. I waited a while to see if it was enough to solve the issue. The image shows the dramatic surface finish improvement.

(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj615/jmadrigal2/20171117_161129.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/jmadrigal2/media/20171117_161129.jpg.html)