iTopSpin

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Author Topic: Orlando... we have a problem...  (Read 6867 times)

ta0

  • Administrator
  • Olympus member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14291
    • www.ta0.com
Re: Orlando... we have a problem...
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2010, 10:03:18 AM »

Quote
Are we to understand that Worlds is actually a money-losing venture for the organizers when it's all said and done?

Really?

yes !!
Well, perhaps. You need to define where the World contest ends and were Infinite Illusions begins. Does Worlds + II make money during the worlds time frame and related activity? Even more stringent test: does Worlds + II make more or less money over one year than what II would make without  Worlds? Accounting is not always an exact science when you have to assign and divide indirect costs: should some of worlds cost be marketing budget for II? It may well be that organizing worlds is a losing proposition for Greg, specially considering the time put into it. Even he may not be sure if it is. Obviously, yoyoing is more than a business for him, or even a hobby, it is a lifestyle.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 11:43:55 AM by ta0 »
Logged

Neff

  • ITSA Jr.
  • Demigod member
  • **********
  • Posts: 2827
    • My Website!
Re: Orlando... we have a problem...
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2010, 11:26:06 AM »

I added a note on the bottom of Maurizio's original message:  "There will be no problem with pre-arranged purchases of S8 tops be it paypal, cash on delivery, whatever.  The discussion below concerns new sales at the WYYC."  So officially there will be no additional S8 tops at worlds unless you see them on the II table, and if they are, the price will most likey have increased.

Business ethics aside, the last thing I want is Steve Brown and those who love him to be negatively focused on a company I represent, righteous or not.  I am very glad we have had this discussion openly on the board.
Logged

Dizzy

  • ITSA Jr.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
Re: Orlando... we have a problem...
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2010, 12:10:07 PM »


Well, perhaps. You need to define where the World contest ends and were Infinite Illusions begins.

Agreed.

I would posit that II, yoyoguy and Worlds are all the same thing in the real world even if there is a legal way to juggle (pun intended) the accounting in order to keep them as separate as possible for tax reasons.

Does Worlds + II make money during the worlds time frame and related activity? Even more stringent test: does Worlds + II make more or less money over one year than what II would make without  Worlds?

Very good follow-up questions to my original query.
More on this below, but I will have a very hard time accepting that he loses more from hosting Worlds than he gains.  Of course I could be wrong.

Accounting is not always an exact science when you have to assign and divide indirect costs:

I'm certainly no accountant, but I think I agree.

should some of worlds cost be marketing budget for II? It may well be that organizing worlds is a losing proposition for Greg, specially considering the time put into it. Even he may not be sure if it is.

Whether Worlds is legally accounted for as part of II's marketing budget I can't say, but there's no question that Worlds does perform a marketing function for II and that it helps bring in money to II before, during, and after the event.  Whether the business that Worlds generates outweighs the loss he may potentially take on the event itself is an accounting question, and his books are not for us to examine. 

I could be wrong, but I would bet heavily on Greg knowing quite well if hosting Worlds is a net gainer or loser for him taking the big picture into account.

The owner/operator of the largest yo-yo retailer in the world also hosting Worlds is no coincidence.  In fact, it makes perfect sense from a basic business and marketing perspective.  If he's sharp enough to build yoyoguy into what it is today, along with his store in Tallahassee, he's no slouch.  And he probably sees an overall business benefit in hosting the event.  That benefit could take many forms.  He could simply profit from the venture with obvious gain.  He could lose money on the event and take a tax write-off from the loss while still getting his name out there to generate long-term business for his e-store.  In retail there is something called the loss leader where a store advertises a popular item at a loss to bring people into the store.  In the long run taking a loss on that one item ends up making them a tidy profit on other items purchased.  Maybe Worlds is a loss-leader for Greg.  As I said, I have a hard time believing that Greg doesn't benefit financially somehow from hosting Worlds.  It just seems like too much hassle otherwise.

And good for him, too.  I enjoy seeing others succeed.  I am very pro-market and I love seeing people go out there, bust their butts, and do well for themselves.  Folks here in the US call it the American dream, but I find that people from all over the world tend to prefer success and financial prosperity to the alternatives, so I just call it the human dream.  And it seems that Greg has realized it to some extent.

And Greg gets to make a living doing something he truly loves.  How many can say that?

As I said earlier, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do have opinions all the same.

It is my position that he has every right to run an event that he hosts in any way he sees fit.  If he actually takes a net loss on the deal then it's truly a labor of love and that's his prerogative.  If it makes him money then good for him.

As far as him trying to get a piece of the action on every deal done in association with the event, well that I don't really agree with.

One, I think it's unrealistic, and two, I think it's contrary to the spirit of the event.  Some would call it outright greedy, but like I said, it's his event and his prerogative.  I would not call it greedy, but I would say it's perhaps short-sighted.

The harder he makes it for really little guys (really, how many units does Maurizio sell in a year, let alone just at Worlds) to move a little product at the event, the less likely they will be to come to him to sell their stuff if they make a breakout and get bigger. 

Also, the market will not be denied.  That's why the black market exists.  Regardless of anybody's rules, people will buy and sell what they want, how they want.  We are in the age of instant information and if he wants in on every deal at his tournament he will simply drive people right out of his business model and they will do business by PM and transact in their hotel room or anywhere else they want.

And lastly, people come to this event to have fun and meet with like-minded people.  The backpack dealers are part of that fun and add to the overall experience.

And come on, how much are they getting into his pocket anyway?

The more fun he makes the event, the more people will be drawn into the hobby, and the more people will buy from yoyoguy.

Am I missing something here? 


Logged

poptop

  • ITSA Jr.
  • Hyperhero member
  • ********
  • Posts: 1464
  • top dropper
Re: Orlando... we have a problem...
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2010, 12:22:28 PM »

I think it's also worth highlighting that Greg's reply was gracious, accomodating, and showed interest in representing tops.  Good for him. 

Although not really related to the ethics discussion, I think its worth recalling the debt of gratitude many of us owe Greg for hosting our former topspinning forum at topspinning.com.  That forum served our community well.
Logged
Erratic Wobbler
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Up