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[ortwin]

I don't find easy to spin the top with the string. Now I am starting to throw it not too bad, as for the spin speed, but still, when the top lands, very often it does not land on the tip.  The top precesses during the throw.  Maybe I should make a slow motion video of a throw so I can see better what it happens and what I do wrong.

Yes, I don't find it easy either but maybe that is part of the thing about it that got me hooked.
And yes the typical western style tops precess during the throw. The Japanese style koma do not because the string is close to the plane with the center of gravity. So in some respect komas are easier to throw.
Here is a good slow motion video:

View this post on Instagram

There are different styles peg tops are thrown. These names are not official I think, but in my beginner mind there are three main styles:

• sideways
• downward
• bowling style

Nr. 3. is what I consider is used in the video above.
No matter which style you are using, there basically two factors that influence the landing angle of the top:

• the angle at which the  top is released from the throwing hand
• the length of the string

I was taught the "sideways" style first and still consider it the one I have the most control over the top.
Try to always release the top with the tip pointing directly upwards. Vary the string length by increments of lets say 10 centimeters.
Observe closely what it does to the landing angle of the top. Longer string should lead to more precession and therefore a bigger change in the angle the tip goes through in period between  the release from the hand and the point where it releases from the string.


I found with practice over the first few days (or weeks?) of playing, the time during which the top unwinds from the string seems to get a lot longer. Of course it only feels longer. At first it feels just like moment, a "puff" when you throw the top. But over time the attention you pay to the throw lets you experience more details, you feel the string unroll and feel how the top accelerates. That also gives you the chance to work on some details of the throwing motion. Hm, this does not sound clear or scientific, but it was a good experience during practicing - and not much related to the landing angle.

[Iacopo]

Thank you, Ortwin, that is a very good video, (and a fantastic, very precise throw!)
The precession is easy to observe.

I will keep in mind your suggestions.  Jorge too made me understand that the lenght of the string is a factor, as the angle at which the top is released, and the position of the wrapped string relatively to the center of mass of the top.
I just have to practice. Trying to observe the movements of the top while unwinding and landing is not very easy, it happens a bit too rapidly, but I will concentrate more on this.   

[Kirk]

There are different styles peg tops are thrown. These names are not official I think, but in my beginner mind there are three main styles:

• sideways
• downward
• bowling style

Bowling ball style gets divided into two categories.
Palm down and Palm up.
With Palm Down (in the video) the point is toward the body. Long strings are used.  The top turns 1/4 turn.
With Palm Up the point is away from the body. Short strings are used.  The top turns 3/4 turn.
Of course with the sideways/side arm throw, the point is up and the top turns 1/2 turn.
With Downward throw or Battle throw or Overhand throw or Kill throw (perhaps even more names) the top turns 1/4 turn and lots of power is available.

Don't forget that string thickness also plays a part.  A thicker string will act like a longer string.
And to confuse the issue even more, the force of the throw plays a part.  When teaching small kids I often shorten the string a few inches if the top is landing on the right side (under rotated).
As they learn to throw harder, and the top over rotates (landing on left side), the string is returned to "normal" length.
Observing the precession takes practice. Until then observe which side the top lands on. 

[ortwin]

When ta0 split this posts from another topic they were buried in, he gave it such an important name, it sounds so basic and important to the whole business!
So lets try to live up to that, lets try to write down very clear and precise "How to throw a top".
We got a start, but some things are still very hazy and even contradictory in my beginners (less than 6 month of playing with peg tops) mind.

...
Bowling ball style gets divided into two categories.
Palm down and Palm up.
With Palm Down (in the video) the point is toward the body. Long strings are used.  The top turns 1/4 turn.
...

As I see it, the point is up upon release in the video and the top turns 1/2 turn.
I think I know now what you mean by saying "toward the body", but maybe someone could suggest a different way to say it, it can be misunderstood, I misunderstood it at least at first.


I read that before what I think I understand from what you write: "[size=0px]Long string, the top turns 1/4 turn, s[/size][/size][size=0px]hort strings are used the top turns 3/4 turn. "[/size]
But to my understanding/feeling/experience it is just the other way round: long strings give the top a chance to turn more while unwinding, with short strings the top turns less. Where did I go wrong??? I definitely correct an "under rotation" by making the string longer and visa versa.


Kirk, in the most part of you post you tried to chose the words  so that what you say is correct for right handed persons as well as for lefties.
Being left handed ( when throwing tops) I appreciate that. We should always try to do it that way. Only  that sentence towards the end
"...[/size][size=0px] inches if the top is landing on the right side (under rotated).[/size][/size][size=0px]As they learn to throw harder, and the top over rotates (landing on left side), the string is returned ...."   [/size] is addressed specifically to right handed people.




 "...[/size][size=0px]With Downward throw or Battle throw or Overhand throw or Kill throw[/size][/size][size=0px] ..."[/size]
With that type of throw I have especially big problems in the understanding: In the other types of throw, the unwinding string is more or less always perpendicular to the axis of the top, with the downward throw that is not the case making it more difficult for me to understand how the precession is acting here.

[ta0]

As I see it, the point is up upon release in the video and the top turns 1/2 turn.
I think I know now what you mean by saying "toward the body", but maybe someone could suggest a different way to say it, it can be misunderstood, I misunderstood it at least at first.

Actually, on the video the tip is pointing straight away from Guillem when he releases it. But the string pull immediately turns the tip to point sideways, so this throw is basically equivalent to an overhand bowling style throw with the tip pointing to the non-throwing arm side, or "inside". I think this "inside" orientation is what Kirk called towards the body. With an underhand throw the tip would point to the outside. The reason the top turns is precession: its axis of spin rotates at 90 degrees to the torque (with respect to the center of mass) given by the string pull.

I read that before what I think I understand from what you write: "[size=0px]Long string, the top turns 1/4 turn, s[/size][/size][size=0px]hort strings are used the top turns 3/4 turn. "[/size]
But to my understanding/feeling/experience it is just the other way round: long strings give the top a chance to turn more while unwinding, with short strings the top turns less. Where did I go wrong??? I definitely correct an "under rotation" by making the string longer and visa versa.

Kirk is right. Short strings make it rotate more, long strings less. Actually, what matters is how high ends the wrap with respect to the center for mass, what determines the initial torque. So what really matters is the combination of string length and string thickness: you can replace a long string with a shorter one that is thicker. I suggest you experiment again.

"...[/size][size=0px]With Downward throw or Battle throw or Overhand throw or Kill throw[/size][/size][size=0px] ..."[/size]
With that type of throw I have especially big problems in the understanding: In the other types of throw, the unwinding string is more or less always perpendicular to the axis of the top, with the downward throw that is not the case making it more difficult for me to understand how the precession is acting here.

The most common killer shot is with the tip sideways and the top doing a 1/4 turn, using a string longer than for the tip-up side throw.