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Author Topic: Amateur vs. professional contest (split topic)  (Read 2847 times)

113

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Amateur vs. professional contest (split topic)
« on: June 02, 2016, 07:16:18 PM »

Moderator note: I split this topic from the Worlds 2016 Cleveland preparation thread
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Hey Everyone,

That seems very pricey! But then again, this is the world championship...If I keep the money, I win a Strummol8!


I am curious... Do Olympic Athletes pay their own way to the Olympics? I'd like to see some official competitions between sponsored participants, like the olympics some day. Still too much of a "niche" sport for that I presume?

113
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 08:20:51 PM by ta0 »
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the Earl of Whirl

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Re: Re: Worlds 2016 Cleveland preparation thread
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2016, 07:21:51 PM »

Very good, Jack!!!  Lord of the Rings, I presume.

No, Olympic athletes have a national body behind them and cover costs like travel, equipment and entry etc.  Kind of like High School track meets and College meets where the whole team is supported by their school.  Yes, sponsored participants would be nice!!!
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Happiness runs in a circular motion!!!

113

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Re: Re: Worlds 2016 Cleveland preparation thread
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2016, 07:28:34 PM »

Dear Earl Of The Whirl,

You are probably right. These competitions don't seem to have a difference between proffessional performers and amatuer performers. Most "serious" sports make this diffference, even Chess does. There is a huge difference between.

1. A competition open to everyone, where everyone pays their own way.

And


2. A competition open to a select few, after being judged for fitness by an official committee, that completely sponsors the participants.


If spinning becomes more popular, you will see many of the 2nd kind of competition. For the record, some amatuers are insanely talented, and I am sure many people would mop the floor with me at these competitions, so I am not speaking for myself, but in general... It's not really fair to match up amateurs with proffessionals, though occasionally some amatuers are better  than some proffessionals.

Amatuer competitions, such as this, tend to test the ability of a person to learn new skills quickly.....

While proffessional competitions (2nd), tend to show how MUCH a person has learned. Those are the two usual differences betweeen these two different circles, and any serious sport would benefit from offering both. I assume the reason Spinning does not have Proffessional and Amateur devisions is because it is too small of a sport..

And yes! I would LOVE to read anyone's thoughts on this matter!

113
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Jack

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Re: Re: Worlds 2016 Cleveland preparation thread
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2016, 08:08:33 PM »

Dear Earl Of The Whirl,

You are probably right. These competitions don't seem to have a difference between proffessional performers and amatuer performers. Most "serious" sports make this diffference, even Chess does. There is a huge difference between.

1. A competition open to everyone, where everyone pays their own way.

And


2. A competition open to a select few, after being judged for fitness by an official committee, that completely sponsors the participants.


If spinning becomes more popular, you will see many of the 2nd kind of competition. For the record, some amatuers are insanely talented, and I am sure many people would mop the floor with me at these competitions, so I am not speaking for myself, but in general... It's not really fair to match up amateurs with proffessionals, though occasionally some amatuers are better  than some proffessionals.

Amatuer competitions, such as this, tend to test the ability of a person to learn new skills quickly.....

While proffessional competitions (2nd), tend to show how MUCH a person has learned. Those are the two usual differences betweeen these two different circles, and any serious sport would benefit from offering both. I assume the reason Spinning does not have Proffessional and Amateur devisions is because it is too small of a sport..

And yes! I would LOVE to read anyone's thoughts on this matter!

113

how does one define "professional" ?
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Neff

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Re: Amateur vs. professional contest (split topic)
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2016, 10:36:31 PM »

Professional = gets paid to do said thing.
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Jack

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Re: Amateur vs. professional contest (split topic)
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2016, 12:15:19 AM »

Professional = gets paid to do said thing.

ahhh, there wouldnt be many of those then bouncing around town i guess eh  :(
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113

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Re: Amateur vs. professional contest (split topic)
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2016, 01:14:19 AM »

Hello Everyone,

Proffessional in general refers to the following:

1. As Neff said, getting paid to do said thing.  It really doesn't necessarily mean they are "better" than an amatuer.

2. A person who may or may not get paid, that views said thing as a proffession. For example, not a doctor who spins on the side. If you spend a considerable amount of time on spinnning, you may call yourself a proffessional, if you please, but please be aware that being a "pro" does not mean "better" than an amatuer. Ask yourself, is this a hobby, or do you view this as a career? I have seen some members on this forum, that are amatuers, who have taken spinning to levels far beyond what most "proffessionals" would ever do.

3. Someone who is skilled at said thing.

Interesting Jack. Why do you say there aren't that many proffessionals? I mean, I agree, but on this forum there are quite a few proffessionals. I understand that some members work for commissions, build tops for sale, mod tops for sale, teach/volunteer, sell tops, and some even work for companies that sell tops. These are all "proffessional".

In the sense we are speaking of... A proffessional competitive spinner... Would not be someone who over the course of a lifetime, has learned many cool little tricks, done a few birthday parties, had some fun every weekend... No.. A proffessional competitive spinner, would be like an acrobat, wieght lifter, or dancer in the Olympics. They would be selected based upon early merit, and trained from a young age, have all their expenses paid for to be the champion of a nation or an institution in an official battle royal. Its very different than what this competition is offering. Spinning is not a large enough market to allow such funding.

Many players here, are excellent, brilliant, magnificent spinners, some of them are amatuer, and some of them are proffessional. Hopefully I have shed some light (with the help of my friends in this thread), on what the difference between proffessional and amatuer means.

Please don't take it the wrong way. An amatuer can be better than a proffessional. Neff, Jack, and Studio 42, to name a few are excellent spinners. As far as I am aware, I do not think they are proffessional ie, but they are far more skilled than I am. I am a proffessional, I work for Liberty Tax as an entertainer (my job is to hold the sign, but they let me juggle, yoyo, dance, and play with tops). I also travel often to parties, clubs and events to perform. I pay my bills in part, with my spintop skills... So... How can all of these people be better than me, when I am a pro?

Well, because, I am an entertainer. My goal is to please an audience, not to necessarily develop my skills.

Take the following examples and compare them for instance.

1. A performance, consisting of target throw, a boomerange, under the leg boomerang, merry go round, crazy 8, hackey top....simple tricks, with ample showmanship, building up "energy".

or

2. A reverse upside down corkscrew

Which is more difficult? 2 is obviously more difficult


Which one will get the loudest cheers and applause?

 From my experience performance 1 will impress an audience much more powerfully. Smiling, making eye contact, talking, explaining what they are doing, showmanship, and simple, flashy tricks, are the key to most proffessional careers.  An amatuer, like most people here... Is very different... You will not be impressed by these simple tricks, because you know, because to you this is no sorcery, but a science. An amatuer, at the end of the day, is completely unlimited. Most of this time, it means someone who just likes playing with tops, but, as you have seen, many people are dead serious about spinning tops, to a degree, that I will never attain, and that I may not even ever care to attain! Would I sacrifice my ability to yoyo to spin tops even better? No! I practice my routine for my next performance, and maybe mess around a little, but thats it! Proffessionals are not necessarily like you all, sweating, bleeding, studying, aching, dedicating so much to such a noble persuit. I might even sacrifice my spintop ability in order to get better at juggling!

Why aren't there more proffesionals? Well... Really it's up to you. Its not that hard at all. As youve seen some people in this forum are actually proffessionals in one capacity or the other. The only reason more spinners aren't pro, is because that is not their goal. do you want to make money spinning tops? Haha, you can! Try putting up ads on craigslist! Try working at liberty tax, or jackson hewitt, or the salvation army!

There is a caveat. As a proffessional, you will be on a strict schedule. You can have no excuses! If you "go pro" you will see that it is not much different than any other job, in fact, it may even be more difficult. You can't just clock in and clock out. You have to practice on your own, for free!

Would you spin tops if it meant people throwing cigarette butts at you on the corner, or throwing a bag full of change in your face? I think that the reason most people aren't "pro" spinners, is because they don't really want this to be a way to earn a living. Most people just want to have fun or persue an art for the sake of the art itself.

If you wanted to be a pro, you easily could. But, I think most of you have better jobs than "going pro" would give you (not that you guy's aren't good, you guys are BEASTLY). But hey, you could make some side money if you wanted :D. If you factor in all the work required to "go pro", even if you get paid 1000 a gig, you will see that it is not worth it... How many hours did it take you to learn to do the "bondage trick"?

How many hours, have you spent spinning? Multiply that by 10$. Do you think in a proffessional setting, that you would ever make it back? You most likely won't get paid 1000$ a gig (hey it can happen, if you  are smart). Most of the time, you will be going to children's birthday parties, and just get cake and pizza, up to 100$.


I am sorry if I sounded arrogant, or boastful, and for ranting. I got a little carried away. I would still like to know your thoughts, gang!

113
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113

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Re: Amateur vs. professional contest (split topic)
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2016, 01:30:32 AM »

P.S.  "Proffessionals are not necessarily like you all, sweating, bleeding, studying, aching, dedicating so much to such a noble persuit. I might even sacrifice my spintop ability in order to get better at juggling!", I meant to say so many of you bleed, sweat, study, ache, and dedicate yourself to this noble persuit. Most proffessionals will never truly know your efforts.

All a "pro" really needs is "the basics" and most pros will not advance it beyond that. If you can't consistently land a trick, every time, effortlessly, while smiling, looking at the audience and talking, it's almost worthless. An amatuer may be impressed, if you "almost made" a really difficult, technical trick, but an audience, who has never seen a top before, will most often, be unable to appreciate the complexity of a "risky" trick. In an amateur setting, trying new thigns, failing, almost getting it, are very real things. In a proffessional setting, it's more important to put on a show. If you do a crazy 8, you will have crowds gathering and flocking, "AMAZING! How do you do that!". If you try a "reverse corkscrew" and it falls to the ground, they will just keep walking, or "keep practicing". The fact that it is insanely difficult, does not win you any sympathy.

This doesn't mean a performer can't ever do the "risky" or really complicated tricks, it just means that most of the time, a performer will opt for showmanship, with simple, flashy tricks, and if complex tricks are used, he will build up to it.

You don't start off with a stairway to heaven, or a comet/suicide. You can finish with it, but you need to lead up to the more complicated tricks, so that the audienc can fully grasp what is going on.

Performing at an event, from this forum... Is also much different from performing before an audience to be entertained. You all, KNOW what spinning is.. You can judge "how difficult" a technical move is, because of your knowledge and experience. An outsider, will not be any more impressed with a corkscrew, than with a crazy 8. The only thing a corkscrew offers, is variety. It is very important to present a wide variety of tricks. so... A proffessional performer needs... Easy, flashy (CHEAP) tricks, and a lot of them! Performing in front of all of you, would require immensely technical feats to impress you, or fluidity, grace, etc. Then again, you might all still be impressed, because you guys are supportive of the art. You want to see each other succeed.

I forget who said it, but it was someone on this forum:

"All you need to do is catch it on your hand, and they think it's magic". I suspect it was Cecil?

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Jack

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Re: Amateur vs. professional contest (split topic)
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2016, 09:46:23 AM »


Interesting Jack. Why do you say there aren't that many proffessionals? I mean, I agree, but on this forum there are quite a few proffessionals. I understand that some members work for commissions, build tops for sale, mod tops for sale, teach/volunteer, sell tops, and some even work for companies that sell tops. These are all "proffessional".



point taken  ;D
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